6th Edition Chaos Dwarf Army List Advice (and a question about hobgoblins)

[HurinTheCursed]

I find the great taurus is costly but he does bring mobility. Nothing else in the roster can go toe to toe with dwarf crossbowmen or handguns before they unleash volleys for 4-5 turns. He can also deal with warmachines (but wolfgobs would do it was well). I would say however that his terror is quite wasted and his fire breath of limited impact, most ranked units have T4 and 4+ save.

One thing you could do is ditch the magic for more missiles and more number. Dwarfs are able to withstand limited amount of magic better than others but have none of their own so decreasing your magic offensive capabilities will not hurt you defensively. A death rocket or a pair of bolt throwers would be useful vs dwarves. 2 LA+S Hobgobs used as screens to protect your warriors from superior firepower or to make flanking units if he goes the close combat route seem a more versatile battle plan to me.

One thing, your chances to beat their characters with your own are quite limited. They have a much better arsenal point for point.

That’s for your O&G: source: DW250

[Kitapotamus]

True, Uzkulak! Difficult decisions I’ll have to mull on my options. I have a fondness for durability and always find myself drifting towards shields.

Thanks, Hurin (great name by the way- love the scene with Hurin and Morgoth). Good to know the taurus has some good uses. Honestly I just decided that if I was doing Chaos Dwarf I’d better have a good centrepiece and really liked the Lost Kingdom Dainn Longbeard taurus demon model! I also wanted a monster as my normal dwarfs have no such option, haha! I was initially saddened that the wizards can’t ride them in 6th (I’m not wild about the Lammasu) but having a lord makes for an interesting change.

Good point regarding the wizards. That was another area where the thought process was basically “well if I’m going to finally get a Chaos Dwarf army I absolutely have to have some magic users” (A: because it’s thematic and B: because it’s a change from my normal dwarfs). Good to have the option (and the theme) but yeah- there’s a couple hundred points there I could cut out if necessary. Bolt throwers are probably out (I’m not fussed about the models or having more hobgoblins) but I’m definitely keen for a death rocket! Hopefully between that and the Earthshaker I’ll be able to put out a fair amount of artillery fire.

Thanks- I’ll have to think hard about how to build the hobgoblins. It’s another area where modelling and theme could clash with practicality: I think the Hobgrot Slittaz banner is neat and would like to build it so a unit at least 20 strong is called for (I’d imagine any less and the banner would be a bit of a waste). I have 40 hobgrotz to build- are you suggesting I make them all shielded warriors or just the 20 I was planning to (with the other 20 as archers)?

Good to know! Nice to hear dwarf characters are strong, in any case- I’m very fond of my old Grombrindal and Ungrim models, hehe.

Awesome- thanks for the errata. I’ve added it to my growing folder of Chaos Dwarf rules!

I don’t suppose you or anyone here has any input on the lore of magic for Chaos Dwarfs? Are our lores considered decent? Are any recommended above others?

[HurinTheCursed]

When I said the great taurus was the only fast element in your army, I forgot the bull centaurs, but they pack enough punch to charge a fully ranked unit (but I would strongly advice against doing so from the front) and win while the Taurus can only take on easier targets but is more mobile.

Be sure the great taures, black orcs and bulls centaurs will be priority targets if he can get a clear shot.

I understand you want to make an army that feels different from the dwarves: monster, cavalry, magic… but you need a plan against two typical dwarf armies: the shooty dwarves who will outgun you and the close combat army that has better troops than you due to better armor, better WS, runic support. Since you already have few range units, I’d say you can swap magic to have more bodies to either soak up to damage when you march toward them (you’ll prefer greenskins dying rather than chaos dwarves) or more units to force them to show their flanks.

For the wizards, go bigger (6 levels) or let them at home. You pay 300pt for 6 casting dice (that you can boost) while he gets 4 dispel dice for free. You can’t base your strategy on you ability to force him to move due to magic and a single warmachine.

Smaller hobgoblins units may be useful as a screen, in this case keep them cheap. They’ll flee at some point. Feel lucky if they flee once they have been charged, you just disrupted his formation for a cheap cost. Remember that your general will be far away, so the leadership of greenskins will be lower: 5/6/7/8.

I am personally not a fan of archers against dwarves. They are useful against light expensive troops, glasscannons (light cavalry, light flyers, heroes on pegasus, wizards, warmachines crew, daemons, elite elves, ogres…) not against tough troops in heavy armor.
It they are shielded and armored, they provide ranks and numbers without taking mass casualties from most enemy combat units while your better troops provide the killing power. They can also move faster giving flanking opportunities.

The lore of Metal is quite good against dwarves because of their good equipment, runes. It’s mostly debuffs and some missiles.
The lore of Fire is usually direct damage.
The lore of death does mostly damage, some of which with short range and no save.
The lore of shadows is more versatile, buffs, extra movement and a bit of damage as well.

[Kitapotamus]

That’s good to know I was worried 6 (including hero) wouldn’t be enough but currently the 3D printable designs I’m using have only one variant for standard centaurs and I didn’t want to have too many of one design.

Good to know. One unit I’m very keen to see in action is the blunderbusses- they sound like a lot of fun. Here’s hoping I can get them in position when I do play.

Sounds good! Using the greenskins and not having cascades of panic when they break is a neat feature of the chaos dwarfs. So I’ll definitely put them to use as a shield.

Thanks- useful to know. I appreciate the targeted advice regarding fighting dwarfs. I’ve built the army as a generic and hopefully flexible force, but it’s nice to know how to tailor it to give the Dawi-Zharr a fighting chance against their long lost cousins! I intend to have a death rocket soon so hopefully that’ll solidify the ranged potential of the army! I really love the Earthshaker design but it’s interesting to see that the death rocket has about the same potential to squish foes! The slow down/ranged disruption effect of the Earthshaker sounds great, though.

Oh I definitely imagine the poor hobgoblins will flee. I wonder if it would be helpful to know my dwarf army has two flame cannons and a cannon for artillery? (Other ranged options include 24 crossbows and 12 thunderers). I understand the flame cannons don’t have the best range, but I imagine they’ll shred the moral of greenskins. I have enough options for the dwarfs to lean into ranged or heavy melee, however. So hopefully I can put together something that will be a fair match-up for the chaos dwarfs.

Useful to know regarding the archers. Hopefully I’ll find some more opponents at some point and find some targets for their arrows, haha! I’ve ordered in some shields for the hobgoblins- I think they’ll look nice when I get around to putting them together!

Thanks for the lore overviews- it sounds like they’re fairly balanced with different jobs, then Always good to hear!

I’ve gotten hold of the two infantry hero/lord models so I now have options to replace the taurus rider! I’m really happy to have him (I like bulls and I think it’s really thematic) but it’s good to have some cheaper options now!

[HurinTheCursed]

As I understood you would only face dwarves, I made advice targeted against them which are not necessarily relevant against other armies.

Flames canons don’t have great range but neither do blunderbusses. I would expect him to try to shut down your mobility first and then your short-range damage dealers: blunderbusses. That’s probably another unit I would leave at home against shooty dwarves, it’s unlikely you’ll keep you ranks and they are more expensive than warriors with shield and can opener. If he’s the one moving forward, your blunderbusses could get an impressive 3 shots (moving in range, closing in, charge response).

Against such a shooty army, even big blocks of 25+ greenskins will have to test panic, with the flame canon he doesn’t have to concentrate fire. Your general will be dealing with the opponent and will not support the troops with its leadership so several layers of cheap screen may be needed for the chorfs to arrive safely in contact.

I’m not the best to tell you what lore is stronger, but part of the answer also comes from want you want to do with your magic.

[Kitapotamus]

Yeah, that was very helpful, thanks! Honestly I have no opponents yet (my friends and I are just getting into 40K but I’ve been working on my dwarf armies as a side project to open up another game we could play). Initially I’ll just suggest my friends pick a variant of dwarf and we can try out the game one day. After that maybe I’ll get lucky and one of them will be interested enough to start their own army. Alternatively I may find some 6th players nearby!

Good to know! I just find the blunderbusses so iconic for chaos dwarfs. Hopefully I’ll get to see them in action one day!

Hmm, true- it will be interesting to drop the taurus and use the general in the core of the army to bolster leadership. Another nice advantage of chaos dwarfs, I suppose- their greenskin minions can benefit from their general’s impressive leadership.

Thanks- I had another read of the lores last night. Honestly magic doesn’t seem wildly impressive for damage! Shadow is appealing, given its ability to boost movement. Could synergise nicely with the Earthshaker slowing the opponent down! A couple shadow wizards and the Earthshaker could make it easier to outmanoeuvre dwarfs!

[HurinTheCursed]

With magic as it is the case with shooting with infantry, you hardly annihilate a unit but you can kills enough models to provoke panic tests which will be missed at some point. You can also weaken a dangerous unit to the point its fighting capacity is below your own units due to lost ranks and outnumber. Only the most expensive spells have that catapult effect where a unit may lose half of its models, but it’s once in a game thing.

For the lord, as I told you, it’s not useless to have the taurus as it can destroy the shooting threats early, it’s up to you. What I would do in this case is to have a hero be the general so that you get leadership 10 in the battleline. Against a shooty army a BSB isn’t that needed because as soon as you units make contact it’s rare you’ll lose combat, even if vanilla dwarves can put a fight. But if he goes the close combat way, you’ll need the BSB since he’ll have better units than you and you need to wait until flankers arrive.

After I offered my friends-opponents to use my armies to play, several of them started collecting the own as they knew it would not collect dust

[Kitapotamus]

Ah, thank you! I gather morale is a very big part of fantasy compared with modern 40k. I get the feeling I’ll enjoy the Rocket Launcher and Earthshaker more than the spell casting. They sound fun- it’ll be interesting to one day try out the guess targeting!

That’s a fantastic idea! I didn’t even notice that heroes have the same leadership as lords. Fantastic to get the benefits of the taurus without sending the general off on his own. Good to know- I guess a more combat themed version of the army would drop the wizards and have a couple heroes (one as the BSB) with the lord roaming on his big 'ol bull. I suppose I could still have a third hero in the centaur unit. Fighty!

That’s great! I’ll have to hope to get similar results!