[Archive] 2,000pt Every Option in the List

Archive [Archive] Army Lists
21

Thommy H:

Orcs use up a Rare slot too, remember. Hobgoblins can be brought freely, without having to make tough choices about what to take.

I know you only have two Rare choices anyway, but it’s still a good enough reason to take hobgoblins over orcs, I think.

22

cornixt:

Orcs are Special, and you’ve only used 2 special slots so it’s not like you’re going to have to drop anything to take them. They are only 1pt more than your tooled up HGs but their T4 and S4 in the first turn makes tham much more flexible. The units are a bit large to be used as you want to. Are these meant to be used in conjunction with Blunderbuss units? You seem to have too many soft units, for anvil-hammer tactics you need a unit that won’t flee from heavy cavalry, and only your plain warriors unit has a good chance of that. A good general will take this army apart piece by piece and you don’t have much to stop him. The tactics you suggest would work better with small units of GW warriors and leave the static res to larger HW/S warriors.

23

Thommy H:

Oh yeah, I meant Special, not Rare. Blah.

24

catbarf:

Orcs are Special, and you've only used 2 special slots so it's not like you're going to have to drop anything to take them. They are only 1pt more than your tooled up HGs but their T4 and S4 in the first turn makes tham much more flexible. The units are a bit large to be used as you want to. Are these meant to be used in conjunction with Blunderbuss units? You seem to have too many soft units, for anvil-hammer tactics you need a unit that won't flee from heavy cavalry, and only your plain warriors unit has a good chance of that. A good general will take this army apart piece by piece and you don't have much to stop him. The tactics you suggest would work better with small units of GW warriors and leave the static res to larger HW/S warriors.

cornixt
I'm just a little reluctant to take Orcs because they're more expensive but also easier to kill. I'll think about it. But really- how are they better at surviving enemy cavalry charges when they're easier to kill and cost more? Besides, they have only S3. Even with choppas, they won't do enough damage to make up for the loss of ranks, outnumbering, and more wounds suffered compared to Hobgobs. Not to mention since they're on larger bases, they take up more room and are thus harder to maneuver.

I'm hoping the Earthshaker can deal with cavalry. With an effective move of 3.5", they won't be getting to my troops before they get blunderbuss'd.

What about Blorcs? Any good? 'Armed to da teef' seems useful.

But whatever happened to the anvil army? As in, use incredibly tough defensive units to win through CR, while killing with ranged stuff? The BBs can do a load of damage, and the Earthshaker is very powerful for board control.

My general tactic isn't too complicated. Warriors up the middle, BBs to either side, Hobbos on the flanks. War machines in the rear targeting enemy artillery and ranged units (or denying enemies charges against my BBs). Bull Centaurs and Great Taurus Lord deploy where necessary, acting as the 'hammers' when needed.

Generally, the idea is to play defensively, win through CR, slaughter anyone coming close with BBs, and when possible use the BCs and Great Taurus as a QRF (Quick Reaction Force) to break and run down expensive enemies. The Taurus is especially useful because with its' speed, the Lord can get to wherever his leadership is needed quickly and efficiently.

Coupled with the War Banner in the middle unit and the BSB in the center of my army (so middle 24" of board covered) I have a very tough nut to crack.

I'm open for ideas- but I haven't seen any real reasoning for taking Orcs instead of armored Hobbos.
25

black ork:

1.for me I find that a unit of 10 BCs is better because a unit againts a blog of men with standerd,3 ranks and outnumber and you also have to add kills so around 5 CR. while a unit of 10 with full command with heavy armour with and great wep will kill way easyer and only have to kill around 3 gusy to win.

2.why not 10? if you have 5 you need to kill 3 to cause a panic test where you would need 6 if you had a unit of 10.

3.a unit with 10,full command and a BC lord will pack a puch!

26

catbarf:

  1. I have a standard. That means I’m only 4 down. A unit of 5 Bull Centaurs will almost always get at least four or five kills, depending on which weapon I use and what the enemy unit is composed of. However, since most infantry have no better than 3+, and very few have 2+, I should be fine.

    2. Wrong, it’s 2 to cause a panic test for a unit of 5, and 3 for a unit of ten. So no real advantage there.

    3. And will cost upwards of 300pts.

    The kicker: Not all ten are going to be able to attack because the frontage is so wide, and they’d be a bitch to maneuver.
27

cornixt:

Did the math in my head - HGs are slightly better against receiving S3 and S4 attacks in combat. Orcs are better against S5 and S6, and all shooting/magic. S7+ makes no difference between the two. Orcs are wider but get S4 in the first turn

28

catbarf:

And Orcs cost more- did you factor that into how much damage they receive? For shooting, they’re equal- because although the Orcs take less wounds, each wound costs them more.

29

cornixt:

I did it purely on the number of models, I never do calculations based on points lost per turn.

30

catbarf:

It’s not just points lost. It’s a total proportion of the models the unit started with. I could buy 25 Armored Hobbos for the price of 20 Orcs. If they each take 5 wounds, the Orcs have suffered 1/4 casualties, while the Hobbos only suffered 1/5.

31

cornixt:

I ran the stats again, the difference is pretty negligable for combat, <3% difference (maybe 1 model in 36 attacks). Shooting-wise, Orcs are a little better, but most significantly at S5 (1 model in 12 hits), so still not that much. A more detailed analysis to take into account the choppa, although I expect a whole extra rank for the CR (assuming you aren’t already at maximum) would still be better.

So, on the whole, 25 HGs tooled up is probably a bit better than 20 Orcs with no upgrades. So you’re right. I think I’d prefer the Orcs still, just because they can be used offensively and don’t panic so much out of range of the general. Plus I have the models already.

I’m not that convinced by your battleplan. Charging in the sides is best done by small hard(ish) hitting units.

Orc Big 'Uns with two choppas are 2pts cheaper than Black Orcs so you could consider them.

32

catbarf:

Actually, I think a better deployment would have the Hobgobs on the sides of the Warriors, and the Blunderbussiers on the flanks- that would probably help a lot.

33

ErikinWest:

If you have some points left over, put a sword of might on your BSB, and if not, perhaps the armor of the furnace on your Lord. Actually I’ve forgotten, does the +5 ward save on a lord also transfer to his mount also?

Cheers,

Erik