[Archive] 2250 List.. Thoughts from everyone?

Servius:

1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord @ 325 Pts

     General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Shadow; Talisman of Protection; Staff of Sorcery; Dispel Scroll: Biting Blade

1 Bull Centaur Hero @ 154 Pts

     Great Weapon; Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the Cruel; Armour of Gazrakh

1 Chaos Dwarf Hero @ 130 Pts

     Battle Standard; Armour of the Furnace

1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer @ 150 Pts

     Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow; Dispel Scroll; Dispel Scroll

22 Chaos Dwarf Warriors @ 262 Pts

     Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; War Banner; Champion

10 Chaos Dwarf Warriors @ 110 Pts

     Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield

10 Chaos Dwarf Warriors @ 110 Pts

     Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield

16 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss @ 224 Pts

     Blunderbuss; Heavy Armour; Musician; Champion

16 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss @ 224 Pts

     Blunderbuss; Heavy Armour; Musician; Champion

35 Hobgoblins @ 80 Pts

     Musician

35 Hobgoblins @ 80 Pts

     Musician

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower @ 60 Pts

     2 Crew each

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower @ 60 Pts

     2 Crew each

1 Death Rocket @ 80 Pts

     2 Crew

          Heavy Armour


1 Death Rocket @ 80 Pts

     2 Crew

          Heavy Armour


5 Bull Centaurs @ 120 Pts

     Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Musician

Casting Pool: 8

Dispel Pool: 5

Models in Army: 174

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Xander:

Nice list!

My first suggestion is to always preface a list with your intentions for it:Tournament? Fun game? “To use the models I own”? etc.

Second, always state which units your characters will join.

I’d up your BBs to 17 and have them be joined my a Sorcerer, for 18 models ranked 6x3.

Have your CD Warriors at 25 US. Not sure where you are putting your characters, so I don’t know what you need exactly.

Musicians in your Hobbo units? Why so? Drop them both and Upgrade a Death Rocket to an Earthshaker Cannon.

Also, as an aside: Your use of the [[Rune of Hashut]] in your avatar and sig has an incorrect orientation. The lines should always match the characters “VE” and not backwards E and V. Just a heads up! :wink:

Baggronor:

Assuming the Bull Centaur Hero is joining the Bull Centaurs, I wouldn’t give him the Gauntlets. Paying points to slap your own guys on a 1 isn’t fun when they’re elites. If he is gunning for chariots on his own, then fair play.

I would also put Armour of Gazrakh on the BSB, as overall I find a 1+ is better than a 4+ with 5+ ward. He is annoyingly vulnerable to average troopers with only T4, especially seeing as he can’t take a shield. If anything I would be tempted to make him a Bull Centaur too, as the Sorcerer Lord is Ld10 already.

I reckon 35 is too many Hobgobs, I would maybe split them into 2 blocks of 25 and one diverting unit of 10.

No Earthshaker?! Outrage :slight_smile:

Do you find the flanking units of 10 useful? If its just flanking that you want them for, then I would go for greenskins, as they have M4 and are cheaper.

Or combine them, so you have 2 decent CD warrior blocks to hold the centre.

16 BBs isn’t so good since you need 5 for a rank bonus now (I know they’re not intended for combat, but it always happens). As Xander says 6x3 or even a full block of 20.

Its a decent list for friendly games though, good variety. If you want to go for more competitive play, I would say its a bit middle-ground, ie you have some shooting but not enough, some magic but not enough. Should look like a proper army when laid out on the tabletop though, a decent-sized horde :slight_smile:

Servius:

LoL i futzed the list a little… unit sizes were off as AB doesn’t add the champion to the unit strength… heres clarification.

1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord @ 325 Pts

     General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Shadow; Talisman of Protection; Staff of Sorcery; Dispel Scroll: Biting Blade

1 Bull Centaur Hero @ 154 Pts

     Great Weapon; Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the Cruel; Armour of Gazrakh

1 Chaos Dwarf Hero @ 130 Pts

     Battle Standard; Armour of the Furnace

1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer @ 150 Pts

     Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow; Dispel Scroll; Dispel Scroll

23 Chaos Dwarf Warriors @ 262 Pts

     Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; War Banner; Champion

10 Chaos Dwarf Warriors @ 110 Pts

     Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield

10 Chaos Dwarf Warriors @ 110 Pts

     Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield

17 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss @ 224 Pts

     Blunderbuss; Heavy Armour; Musician; Champion

17 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss @ 224 Pts

     Blunderbuss; Heavy Armour; Musician; Champion

35 Hobgoblins @ 80 Pts

     Musician

35 Hobgoblins @ 80 Pts

     Musician

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower @ 60 Pts

     2 Crew each

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower @ 60 Pts

     2 Crew each

1 Death Rocket @ 80 Pts

     2 Crew

          Heavy Armour

1 Death Rocket @ 80 Pts

     2 Crew

          Heavy Armour

5 Bull Centaurs @ 120 Pts

     Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Musician

Casting Pool: 8

Dispel Pool: 5

Models in Army: 174

The BSB be in the Large Warriors. the sorcerers will normalily be in the blunderbuss units. but could change. The bull hero is a loner but will usually be just to the flank of the bulls but not touching…

At Baggronor:

I use the Armour of the Furnace more for the ward than the 1+. My meta locally is alot of crap that ignores armour save so 1+ compared to 4+ is less of an issue. The BB are 6x3 with characters… but would still have rank without them. On the Hobs… Ill try that one thanks.

Thanks for the Opinion Baggronor.

On the Earthshaker there are some problems locally with it, the owner of the local shop prides himself as a warhammer know it all and has stated it only affects regular movement i.e. Base ground move and ground marching. So in his definition it doesn’t effect: Flyers, Magical movement, any compulsory movement and so on. And there are a lot of undead players and having an item which basically is a death rocket with a movement modifier to it… but I only effect 30% of my normal opponents movement. Really he personally hates Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarf and is very specific that the Chaos Dwarf army is gone… He runs store gaming like its a GT so me and the other Chaos Dwarf player are constantly hounded how our list is no longer “legal” to even play we pretty much have to say “So, you sold us models that your now telling us we can’t play in your store?” and he backs down.

At Xander: As stated i futzed the list most of your suggestion were what was in the list. I use musician as they are decently cheap and will give an effective Leadership 11 when rallying (as the General should be within 12 at that point) but ill see how it goes… they may get dropped for 6 more hobs when i split the units up.

Baggronor:

Well, if he gets really annoying you could always use them as a dirty dirty Thorek Ironbrow gunline. I’m sure he would start seeing the merits of allowing your CD lists pretty fast. You could also print off the FAQs and show it him, although I’m guessing you’ve probably tried.

Servius:

he knows full well about them… but he tries to enforce the point “Well the gamers here are tournament players and really seeing the CD list isnt legal on the circuit they dont need to practice against it.” He is just a competitive guy and pushes the store to be like him… so playing at his store is more like playing in a tournament regardless of what day it is…

Bassman:

Gosh, such an annoying person! Could you please remind him that Warhammer is a GAME? Maybe he forgot this “minor” factor… :h
I never had problems in GW shops to play with my Dawi-Zharr and everyone was happy that somebody reminds Cds and give them the possibility to play against!
I know some guys that play worldwide tournaments at a very high level and everybody of them is always happy that someone still play Cds.
So I do not really understand your local shop owner…
Build a custom heartshaker and bomb his shop :smiley:
Sorry for offtopic post!
Bye Bassman

qwe50:

Well not taking an earthshaker give you a free rare - that leve room for some ogres, DOW or ROR

15 x Marksmen of Miragliano cost 235p and will work really well with rest of you list.

Menghils manflayers are also really good.

oh and you cant have Leadership 11 it’s max 10

Servius:

Essentially yes… but if you have leadership 10, are fleeing and testing to rally and have a musician. the musician give my +1 to rally. as it is a modifier to the test and not your stat, you can in that case get more than 10… at least that is always how i have seen it played… and i do go to quite a few tournaments… though, it could simply be a house rule that has been accepted by many as a real one…

on dogs of war: I have considered making a giant or taking some birdmen and converting them.

qwe50:

Page 81 in the small rule book under musicians - rallying bonus

“up to a maximum of leadership 10”

you can’t take a giant - chaos dwarf is not one of the armyes who can under the new rules. Buy a box of empire crossbows and make some marksmen BS4 cossbows really solve many problems

Auretious Taak:

Servius,

This store owner sounds a real douchebag to be honest. So he won’t allow the earthshaker to do anything other then the normal base infantry movement, does he have a gripe with the whole you can’t shoot normal guys and only warmachines shoot on a 4+ within the tremour range? If he does he is by his definition, breaking the rules. You could of course mess with the Bull centaur them a bit more and take a bull centaur lord with the gauntlets and a great weapon for 5 strength 7/8 (depends what version of the rules you use) attacks or just be an arse and take the old CDL on GT with the Dark Mace of death and line up for a charge against the most expensive unit in his army, D3 wounds against all models in b2b (remember corners count, he can’t abuse that as it is the rule) so the GT charges and gets a full unit of foot or 4 Cavalry and all of them die. Then of course the great taurus gets to attack. …

Your army looks good, how are the BB’s arranged? In ranks of 5 or 4, remembering 4 don’t give rank bonus anymore. Though lining up the unit so as it is in a single rank gets a 17 model wide 12 inch fire arc that can really scare people as whether you move or not o they are skirmishes or light cover or what they are hit on a 4+, that’s how Iinterpret the rules anyways. The fact is, you shoudl remember that you have sizeable units of BB’s and this gives you flexibility in so far as you can kill half the T3 models ina single unit or wound half the models in 3 or 4 units arrayed against you, assuming people haven’t staggered their line to advance in a classic hit teh flank and turn it and close the prongs movement.

Oh and if your local store owner keeps giving you shit over the legality of the army, go take my first hob goblin spam list against him, just borrow as many goblin/slave models as you can get your hands on, ie borrow everyones models and count them as your slave army. At 2,000pts against this toss of a store owner you’re plonking down over 850 models. THAT should shut his gob once and for all. :slight_smile:

Auretious Taak.

P.S. And tell the store owner that i said the only reason he has an issue with teh Earthshaker not being “legal” in his sense of the word and that he wants to push all these rulings against its’ effectiveness, is because he is not skilled enough to beat the army without making up excuses. he is, in short, not worthy of full on tournament play because he does not have the ability to face ANY army that may pop up at ANY tournament. Go Go Chaos Dwarfs!

grupax:

according to direwolf FAQ the earthshaker effect does effect flying movement

time your storemanager updates his knowledge :hat off

(just mentioning someone even plays the gnoblar list from white dwarf at our store)

Auretious Taak:

Yeah grupax, as far as I was aware flying in WFB is in short burst you fly and land and fly and land, hence a lack of fly up rules anymore, lol, they were broken as, hee.

grupax:

Yeah grupax, as far as I was aware flying in WFB is in short burst you fly and land and fly and land, hence a lack of fly up rules anymore, lol, they were broken as, hee.

Auretious Taak
back in the days you just used fly high in turn 1
then charge anywhere on the battlefield in turn 2

Auretious Taak:

Yeah grupax, as far as I was aware flying in WFB is in short burst you fly and land and fly and land, hence a lack of fly up rules anymore, lol, they were broken as, hee.

Auretious Taak
back in the days you just used fly high in turn 1
then charge anywhere on the battlefield in turn 2


grupax
That's what I was referring to. ;)