Miasma:
Greetings All,
Below is a list of the army that I would like to put out in the near future the main aim of the list is for me to improve my modelling and painting skills however I would like the list to perform well on the table.
The vast majority of this list I should be able to build/convert from my extensive bits box that I have accumulated over the years with a few additional purchases (K’Daai Fireborn, Destroyers and the Bull Centaurs) as you can see I occasionally play under Swedish Comp in the 12-16 range but also play in non-comped environments as a result of this I usually only play with a singular list in both environments (makes things easier for me)
Total Roster Cost �?" 2400 Points (Swedish Comp Score 12.9)
Sorcerer Prophet �?" 385 pts (-38)
Level 4, Lore of Hashut, Black Hammer of Hashut, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation
Infernal Castellan �?" 197 pts (-22)
Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Mask of the Furnace
Bull Centaur Taur�?Truk �?" 195 pts (-12)
Blackshard Armour, Great Weapon, Dragonhelm
Hobgoblin Khan �?" 60 pts (-4)
Wolf, Light Armour, Shield, Spear
28 Infernal Guard �?" 457 pts (-15)
Great Weapons, Full Command, Gleaming Pennant
32 Hobgoblins �?" 156 pts (-4)
Shields, Musician, Standard
4 Bull Centaur Renders �?" 225 pts (-8)
Great Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame
3 Bull Centaur Renders �?" 180 pts (-6)
Great Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Swiftness
4 K�?TDaai Fireborn �?" 220 pts (-7)
K�?TDaai Destroyer �?" 325 pts (-55)
As you can see I like to have a combat oriented list and would like to see your thoughts and suggested improvements.
sam585:
I would drop the smaller centaur unit and add another 3 khans. Other than that it looks good.
Bloodbeard:
I’m not into swedish comp but will offer advice on the list anyway (hopefully it won’t break your score). It’s only minor tweaks - I like your list.
Your BSB will be close to on in the IG unit, so they don’t need gleaming pennant. The lichbone pennant giving them a 6++ against magic or banner of swiftness would be better. Perhaps Banner of Slavery to avoid those hobgoblins from infighting.
I agree on dropping a unit of BCs and I would give one of them Gleaming Pennant - as they will often run far ahead and not have the BSBs LD re-roll.
I love my K’daii Fireborn, but havn’t found them delivering enough damage / staying alive long enough / denying the enemy if they are below 6 in unit size.
I always bring the chalice (I now swedish comp) or a dispel scroll if I have many k’daai. Getting hit by Lore of Nurgle or Lore of Shadows toughness lowering spells is simply not an option.
The trouble with the sorcerer prophet is that he is so damn expensive. So I don’t want to put him into a challenge or fighting something too big. So I would put the Black Hammer on someone else, give him dispel scroll and earthning rod.
What are you planning for BCs and K’daai in your BfSP army?
Miasma:
@ Sam585, unfortunately doing so would make my army illegal with a comp score of 11.7 but I appreciate the idea and will try and squeeze a bit more chaff into the list.
@Bloodbeard, I appreciate the advice and will do what I can under the restrictions. The Gleaming Pennant was because I had the spare points to sink into the banner I know it was a waste but honestly couldn’t see what else to include (maybe Potion of Foolhardiness on the Taur’ruk? Seems like a fun addition). The Chalice is out, for the comp score I could get another unit of Infernal Guard but the Earthing Rod is not comped too highly.
My plan for the BC’s are to convert them out of the Ogre Kingdoms Mounfang Cavalry, the K’Daai destroyer out of the Stonehorn kit and at the moment I have no idea what I plan to use as the Fireborn at the Moment, maybe something else from the Ogre range since the kits are pretty cheap for what you get (thinking about a Ogre version of Flamers of Tzeentch at the moment)
anyway updated list, could just squeeze this into the comp bracket
Total Roster Cost �?" 2399 Points (Swedish Comp Score 12.0)
Sorcerer Prophet �?" 375 pts (-43)
Level 4, Lore of Hashut, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Earthing Rod
Infernal Castellan �?" 197 pts (-22)
Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Mask of the Furnace
Bull Centaur Taur�?Truk �?" 200 pts (-12)
Blackshard Armour, Great Weapon, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness
Hobgoblin Khan �?" 66 pts (-4)
Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Shield, Tormentor Sword, Dragonbane Gem
Hobgoblin Khan �?" 61 pts (-6)
Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Shield, Warrior Bane
28 Infernal Guard �?" 469 pts (-15)
Great Weapons, Full Command, Pistol, Banner of Swiftness
32 Hobgoblins �?" 156 pts (-4)
Shields, Musician, Standard
4 Bull Centaur Renders �?" 220 pts (-8)
Great Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Gleaming Pennant
6 K�?TDaai Fireborn �?" 330 pts (-11)
K�?TDaai Destroyer �?" 325 pts (-55)
*Edit: Pistol on Deathmask
Bloodbeard:
Looking really good - yes it does. 3 points left - just enough for a pistol somewhere. Quite satisfying when a Deathmask takes down an eagle or shoots someone through the eye by stand and shoot.
Miasma:
Pistol on the Deathmask it is then
Miasma:
Ok have rejigged a few things to get more bodies on the table, it also lowers my comp score slightly
Total Roster Cost �?" 2400 Points (Swedish Comp Score 12.2)
Sorcerer Prophet �?" 395 pts (-43)
Level 4, Lore of Hashut, Blood of Hashut, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Earthing Rod
Infernal Castellan �?" 202 pts (-22)
Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Pistol, Mask of the Furnace
Bull Centaur Taur�?Truk �?" 195 pts (-12)
Blackshard Armour, Great Weapon, Dragonhelm
Hobgoblin Khan �?" 66 pts (-4)
Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Shield, Tormentor Sword, Dragonbane Gem
Hobgoblin Khan �?" 60 pts (-6)
Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Shield, Spear
28 Infernal Guard �?" 415 pts (-12)
Full Command, Pistol, Razor Standard
40 Hobgoblins �?" 192 pts (-5)
Shields, Musician, Standard
4 Bull Centaur Renders �?" 220 pts (-8)
Great Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Gleaming Pennant
6 K�?TDaai Fireborn �?" 330 pts (-11)
K�?TDaai Destroyer �?" 325 pts (-55)
Miasma:
Firstly apologies for the multiple posts, I had a game last night using the above list (with GW IG) against Wood Elves and managed to scrape together a 10-10 draw, the issue that I had was that I was unable to catch units after they fled from combat and I had no ranged threats with which I could attempt to force his units off the table or mop up to gain their points (if I had managed to do so I could have gained a 11/9 or even a 12-8 in my favour if luck was with me as I needed to drop one model off of a unit of glade guard on the board edge to force a panic test on the unit with no BSB in range) so I came to thinking about the Infernal Guard, if I could make this unit large enough to be a points denial unit and give myself some ranged capability while also keeping the combat power so I have decided that I would try a large unit with Fireglaves as this gives me some shooting with the unit and S5 in Close Combat which I believe should be enough to tackle most threats.
Enough Waffling More List talking
Total Roster Cost �?" 2400 Points (Swedish Comp Score 12.0)
Sorcerer Prophet �?" 375 pts (-43)
Level 4, Lore of Hashut, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Earthing Rod
Infernal Castellan �?" 197 pts (-22)
Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Mask of the Furnace
Bull Centaur Taur�?Truk �?" 220 pts (-14)
Blackshard Armour, Great Weapon, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone
Hobgoblin Khan �?" 61 pts (-4)
Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Shield, Tormentor Sword
Hobgoblin Khan �?" 61 pts (-6)
Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Shield, Warrior Bane
33 Infernal Guard �?" 610 pts (-17)
Fireglaive, Full Command, Pistol, Banner of Swiftness
4 Bull Centaur Renders �?" 220 pts (-8)
Great Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Gleaming Pennant
6 K�?TDaai Fireborn �?" 330 pts (-11)
K�?TDaai Destroyer �?" 325 pts (-55)
sam585:
Honestly, Wood Elves are a tough match up for everyone since they are designed to only enter combat when they need to, and stay out of all other combats. Point denial is a decent solution, and a large infernal Guard block definitely helps in this. Now being str5, I found it to be extremely lacking for a combat infernal guard block. Why? Well infernal guard are not great at close combat, and when up against t4, needing to roll a 3+ really hurts when half of your attacks already will miss. But I do concede the infernal guard with fireglaives are a more balanced option, but they really cant shoot for jack a apple pie, you are usually always taking a movement penalty and a distance penalty. So 19 or 18 shots which need 6s to hit, then 3s to wound? Yea they are not doing much of anything in the shooting phase. It only gets worst if they are shooting at t4.
If you really wanted to make your woodelves sweat, I would drop the destroyer and take 3 rockets.
Miasma:
Ok the more games that I play the more insufficient the list seems, I definitely need some shooting in the list and I need some better combat which leads me to thinking that I should drop the Fireborn and the Destroyers. The reason that I am doing this is that there seems to be a meta shift at the moment leading away from 1+ armour saves and more towards reg (again), this obviously means that flaming units are more prevalent and as a result those 2++ versus fire items are holding up at least 650 points of my list. S5 seems to be okay at the moment and the few shots that the fireglaves do manage has definitely helped out but the unit did much better with great weapons. Also I have been reading your lists (@sam585) in regards to the large BC unit and think that this may alleviate several of my issues. All in all the K’Daii need to go, so I need a drastic rethink and a change of plan.
So I need some Shooting
More Movement Control
Drop in Comp Score (to start up on points)
Total Roster Cost: 2400 (Swedish Comp Score 15.7)
Sorcerer-Prophet - 370 pts (-28)
Level 4, Lore of Metal, Blood of Hashut, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation
Dark Castellean - 202 pts (-22)
Battle Standard Bearer, Pistol, Shield, The Mask of the Furnace
Bull Centaur Taur’ruk - 235 pts (-14)
Great Weapon, Blackshard Armour, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, The Other Trickster’s Shard
Bull Centaur Taur’ruk - 225 pts (-17)
Blackshard Armour, Shield, Sword of Striking, Crown of Command
Hobgoblin Khan - 59 pts (-4)
Wolf, Light Armour, Tormentor Sword
Hobgoblin Khan - 59 pts (-6)
Wolf, Light Armour, Warrior Bane
Hobgoblin Khan - 58 pts (-6)
Wolf, Light Armour, Spear
28 Infernal Guard - 455 pts (-15)
Great Weapon, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Swiftness
28 Hobgoblins - 152 pts (-3)
Bow, Musician, Standard Bearer
6 Bull Centaurs Renders - 320 pts (-14)
Great Weapon, Musician, Standard Bearer, Gleaming Pennant
Deathshrieker Death Rocket - 100 pts (-10)
Deathshrieker Death Rocket - 100 pts (-10)
Hobgoblin Wolf Riders �?" 65 pts (-2)
Spears
10 Warmachine Points (-2)
sam585:
That list is looking pretty nasty especially since your comp score is now better.
Mind letting us know what you are fighting?
Miasma:
My meta is fairly well rounded the only armies that I don’t encounter much are Ogres, Tomb Kings and Skaven although they’re present I don’t often get drawn against them. Most likely I get Wood Elves, Lizardmen and Vamps
sam585:
I have never fought vamps. On paper, I feel you have a decent chance against them just must avoid the vamp blender I suppose
Miasma:
Vampires are a tough match up, the Blenders in Swedish are quiet highly comped so it is likely that I will face a Double Vampire Lord BK Blender Bus alongside something else that I would struggle to face, You just have to keep in mind that each Lore of Vampire Spell that is cast heals a wound on the Vampire. However I have been helping a Vampire Player with his list lately (as they’re an army that I always wanted to collect and play) have managed to fit in a Level 4 on Zombie Dragon, 2 Mini Blender Vamps on Hellsteeds, 2x 42 Skeleton Warriors, 3x 5 Dire Wolves, 10 Black Knights (Banner of Swiftness), 2x 3 Vargheists. The list does worry me quite a bit!
sam585:
I am assuming the double vampires are are hero level?
Switch to Hashut. Ashstorm will allow you end his magic phase, the most important phase for vamps imo, and with this style of list you need hatred to rack up the damage and kills from your combat blocks.
Flames of Azgorh if you get it is strong enough to eat through armored units since everyone suffers a str6 hit in addition to the toughness test instant kill.
The Taur’ruk might be a good candidate to fight a blender lord one on one, since you got the reroll armor save. The chances only improve if you get ashstorm cast unto the vampire to lower his to hit.
Miasma:
Yes Baby Vamps = Hero Vampires
I’m still not sold on the list to be honest, still needs a fair bit of tweaking and the Lore Choice for now will have to stay on Metal (better comp Score) so I can make a few more changes if needed