Added another Bullcentaur; however, my Tauruk still does not benifit from the look out sir, this will allow me to keep the unit from dying for about an extra turn, and allow them to weather more shooting.
Took bows off hobs, scraped the lvl 1, changed the loadout on the Castellen and lastly added another khan with spear :s
With this setup I feel I can give even better threat against dwarf Gunlines. And against strong combat armies the khans should be able to hold up a unit for 3 turns which would practically remove it from the game.
That is the Castellan setup I use in my all comers list :cheers
Its becoming a great list! And it stands out with having no K’daii in it.
I’m very curious to see how your war machines will preform without the level 1. Especially after you complained about the deathshrikers. The Khans seem worth it in points cost though…
Great thread as usual! Keep the battlereports coming!
2500 my new 3 khan 1 prophet list vs a somewhat different WoC list.
He had
1 Lvl4 Tzeetch Sorc Lord
1 BSB in warshrine
5 Chairiots (3 nurgle)
1 group of hounds
29 Chosen with handweapons/shields/FCMD/ and razor standard.
1 Hell Cannon
Dwarfs get turn 1, and finish deploying first.
Did my usual deployment with hobs on flanks and centaurs on farthest flank.
No movement except I vanguard and marched one hob khan to chaff the chosen block the other khan hid behind a ruin and the last khan was on the other side.
I was unable to cast any spells, except breath of hatred on my Infernal guard.
Shooting saw as direct a hit one can get with a Magma cannon touching 12 Chosen but killing only 1. The Hellcannon fired better doing 3 wounds. One of my rockets knocked off a Nurgle
Chariot but they do not panic.
Chaos just stomps forward, the chosen block charges the Khan killing him and deciding to overrun. Infernal Gateway kills the other Khan.
Dwarfs turn 2, with only one Khan left I send him flying across the board just in front of the hounds, making the chosen have to spend anther turn maneuvering. I march my hobgoblin blocks forward to prepare to hold threats up. The Bullcentaurs march up tempting my opponent to either charge me or I am going to charge him.
Magic- Threw 5 dice at flame of Azgorh which is scrolled, the rest of my dice went to subjugation onto the chosen block and he dispels it.
Shooting- Magma cannon hits 16 chosen and kills 1, Rockets kill another chariot, hell cannon hits the chosen group once again scoring 1 wound.
Chaos turn 2- Chosen maneuver around as expected, hounds charge khan, chariot charge bulls as expected. Hell cannon marches forward as do the remaining chariot on the other side.
Magic- Infernal Gateway is scrolled, the other template base direct damage spell drags 8 or 9 infernal guard to their death, but now they have regeneration.
Close combat- The chariot which charged my bulls gets 2 wounds through with impact hits, and does another 1 with its basic swings killing a centaur, the Centaurs return attack explodes the chariot we reform to charge the remaining Nurgle Chariot. The hounds put a wound through but my Khan rolls a 6 for his armor save!, The khan in return kills 1 hound and they both hold.
Dwarfs Turn 3- Centaurs make a pretty far charge slamming into the last chariot on the left flank, just outside the hellcannons arc. The hobos who are 30 strong move up to stall the hellcannon. The other group of 20 hobos gets in the way of the chosen.
Magic- I roll a 3 for PD try to get dark subjugation off but it is dispelled.
Shooting-Magma cannon hits another 12 chosen and no wounds get through. Both rockets take shots at the hell cannon, one blowing away a Chaos Dwarf Crew, the other getting though all the hellcannons saves and dealing 3 wounds! My hellcannon takes a shot at the remaining chariot scores a direct hit and kills it.
Close combat- The centaurs suffer another 2 wounds from the Chariot Crew, they put 2 through themselves, Chariot breaks Centaurs catch and slam into the unkillable bsb…
Khan finishes off hounds and runs them down. My opponent has no more chariots now.
Chaos Turn 3 Chosen Charge hobs, hellcannon charges other hobs.
He trys to cast gateway, on the magma cannon but I dispell it. He then casts the template based D.damage spell but he only rolls a 1 for the strength.
The chosen easily break the hobs and reform, but the hobs kill 1 chosen. The hellcannon just murders about 5 hobgoblins and the hobs hold on a rerollable 10.
The unkillable bsb challenges I decline, he then causes 3 wounds (being str 7) and the shrine bears do another 1 killing another 2 centaurs. Centaurs return attack getting 1 wound through his rerolling 3+ wardsave. We win through static but he holds.
Dwarfs Turn 4- Hobs rally. Khan moves and chaffs up the Chosen block again.Hellcannon moves up too.
I skip my magic phase.
Hit another 9 chosen with the magmaa cannon and get no wounds through.
CC the hobs manage to put 1 wound onto the hellcannon, hellcannon munches 3 hobs. Hellcannon has 1 wound left.
I challenge the BSB with my Champion, who is immediately slain, Centaurs hold.
Chaos Turn 4- Chosen Charge the Khan.
Magic- He casts infernal gateway and destroys my magma Cannon.
CC- Hellcannon suffers no wounds. I challenge with my Tauruk, who immediatly suffers 3 wounds but gives the Shrine 1 himself. Chosen destroy the khan and reform
Dwarfs Turn 5- Hobgoblins fail to swift reform. Hellcannon stays still.
Magic- I cast flame of azgorh which is dispelled, and then I try to cast dark subjugation and that actually goes through.
Shooting- skip the phase
.
CC- Tauruk suffers no wounds due to an epic fail on his rolls, Tauruk puts another wound onto the shrine but the shrine holds. Hellcannon finally dies to hobgoblins.
Chaos turn 5- Chosen reform and move into charging distance of infernals.
They roll poorly for PD and fail to cast any spells.
CC- Shrinemaster finally kills the Tauruk, the centaurs flee and dies due to rules for a regimental standard.
Dwarves turn 6- I charge everything into the chosen, hitting all flanks.
magic- I 6 dice flame of azgorh getting a very nice miscast result. It scatters off the shrine, but I manage to roll a 6 for the str 6 hit, and then he rolls a 2 for his wardsave, I then roll a 6 for the wounds blowing the crap out of it.
Combat- The chosen suffer 3 wounds and rip apart the hobs. They hold and deny steadfast to my depleted hob units who both flee.
Chaos turn 6- Realizing he cant really do much else, he gateways my rocket off the table and calls it a game.
Score is a 12-8 win for me (using our game clubs scoring system) But in the standard BRB it is a draw since I only was ahead by 320ish points…
Overall thoughts- Toughness 5 chosen, with a 3+ armor save, a 3++ wardsave vs magic missiles and D.damage spells, 5++ wardsave vs war machines, and a 5++ parry save in close combat are just to difficult to beat. I would be very sad to face this unit in a tournament, not to mention if he would have got a DP the game would of likely been much harder for me.
The khans did well delaying the chosen block, and I got super lucky with my rockets this game. Overall I feel like I came out ahead due to luck at the end.
That's a REALLY durable block of Chosen. I assume his Tzeentch caster had MR3? It looks like you played pretty well. Nicely done!
Grimbold Blackhammer
He was running an exalted hero with just MR (3) unmarked. I actually managed to get that character to fail a look out sir roll and then rolled a 1 to wound x.x
This seems like the kind of list that the destroyer would shine against. Destroyer would crush those chosen barring magical shenanigans, alongside most of the rest of the list other than the warshrine mounted guy.
You should have put the khan blocking the chosen turn one closer towards the chariot so that he was blocking it too. That way, he would be blocking both at the same time, chosen overrunning would take them slightly further away from the rest of the battle, and if the chariot overran, it would have probably blocked the chosen from overrunning. Also, khan (not wolf riders) have throwing knives, which are quick to fire. Don’t forget that gobbos can stand and shoot with throwing knives all the time, pluck off a couple of warriors or perhaps a hellcannon wound.
Im always forgetting about my khans shooting, and never realized I could position a khan to block both of them will attempt that type of stalling in my next battle. Thank you for pointing that out ThorAxe.
And yes this would be the one battle that the Kdaaii would excel in, but probably one of the only battles in which that would be the case. I am expecting this opponent to make some alterations to his list to better beat mine time will tell. Thank you all for your comments and thank you for reading.
After a break due to work and the 4th, I am back with a update. I am having an itching feeling that an Iron Demon might serve my army better than the 2 rockets. Mainly for the fact that it like the rest of my army can either go on offense or defense. That and the steam cannonade seems extremely destructive, and should fulfill the roll of monster hunting that I was using my rockets for anyway, additionally their is a 2999 tournament in December and the ID rounds out my list nicely.
I built my ID from bottle caps, zip ties, the Hell cannon face, wire nuts, straws, wire nuts, balsa wood, click pen spring, and a small led flashlight.
I was careful when I built the model so that I could unscrew the back to change the batteries when needed.
Here is my Iron demon mostly painted, basing and other details (mainly on the wheels) to come later. Will use this bad boy this Thurs/Friday in some 2500/2999 games :hashut
Seems odd that the daemonsmith died to shooting/magic missile. You do remember that he has a 2+ look out sir for war machines, right? Tamurkhan states that he gets a look out sir as if he were within a unit of 5 or more for the look out sir roll. Regardless, dropping him will give you the items and models you would want, maybe an extra khan as well
ThorAxe
Right but I do not believe he gets the same sort of benefit from regular shooting/magic missiles for he is not really in a unit and look out sir is just for templates.
And as I do agree on that hobgoblin setup with bows, I have played now about 10 games with my goblins and in those 10 games the the only kills I was able to get was 1 chaos hound, so I am looking at it from the perspective that I never really had bows anyway :P.
And thank you Grimbold!
sam585
I just wanted to correct the idea that you get a 2+ Look Out Sir. Warmachines grant Daemonsmiths the same LOS that comes from a character being within range of a unit of 5+ infantry. That LOS is 4+ unless I'm badly mistaken.
Also, LOS from the Warmachines only apply to circumstances that would normally result in a LOS like templates.
I just wanted to correct the idea that you get a 2+ Look Out Sir. Warmachines grant Daemonsmiths the same LOS that comes from a character being within range of a unit of 5+ infantry. That LOS is 4+ unless I'm badly mistaken.
Also, LOS from the Warmachines only apply to circumstances that would normally result in a LOS like templates.
TheFNG
In the rulebook for tamurkhan page 187 under infernal engineer states: A model with this rule, if it is within 3" of one of their army's war machines and not mounted on a monster is allowed to take a "Look Out Sir!" roll as if they were in a unit of five or more models.
The "in" part leads me to believe its a 2+, because any other character in a unit of 5 or more models benefits from the 2+ only when they are out of the unit does it become the 4+.
Unless I can be shown clearly in the faq that it is the weaker version of the look out sir will I play it as such.
And yes, in my tournie the things which killed my demonsmiths were fireballs and odd shooting, the los rarely, if at all, came into play during the game:D
Great with more battle reports on CDO. I read them all and really enjoy it. You can learn a lot from them. Would like some armyshot to complement them though. To have a better mental image while reading the report. Brings some personality to the map thing - which is a super great tool. Precise!
Fin looking junkdemon there, I like stuff build from scrap. As most of the stuff in my own blog. His looks are fitting for his stats and rules. It sure looks like a grinder. Reminds me of those guys here:
I would like to take army pics but I lack a camera : ( maybe I can just use a video camera and cut the images from the video. I will attempt this on Friday which should be able to play 4-6 games against Dwarfs, goblins, lizards, demons, woc and something else
Well Friday came and went, and I played Three games, 2 versus ogres 1 versus Dwarves. I lost all of them, quite badly. I will spare the battle reports but essentially what occurred was I could not put out enough ranged damage from either spells or shooting, and then when combat happened none of my units had enough actual combat punch to kill anything, though they were great anvils.
To remedy this situation I have devised a new list and provided some analysis on why I changed what I changed.
Firstly my sorc prophet is becoming a lvl3. I am now a firm believer that our sorc prophet is way to expensive for how fickle the magic phase is. Additionally I am switching him to lore of death which I now believe has more useful spells overall.
My BSB remains about the same with a 2+as, 5++, and a sword of might.
The Bcentaur hero loses his great weapon, but gains 6+ parry and a reroll the first failed armor save.
Hobos stay the same.
Infernal Guard see a signifiant changing becoming 33 strong and now use blunderbusses. They are still an anvil, but now they have the possibility of putting out over 60 shots per shooting phase and additionally becoming a serious stand and shoot threat. This will kill just about anything. Yes their is a lot of points in this unit, and one can chaff it, and additionally if you focused fire it with p.sun and pit of shades it is quite possible you can kill it. However, my opponents can do that to this unit in any of its renditions but at least now they have the ability to go toe-toe with the enemy and the ability to come out on top.
20 man hobo unit is trashed, while the 30man unit stays.
The bullcentaurs see the same treatment as the hero and lose the Gweapons in favor of shields. This unit is designed to be a tank, and I was trying to play them as a killer, which ultimately caused them to die every turn. Now with the use of shields, this unit is unshakable to the likes of str4 and str5 units, and will likely grind out on top.
2 flamecannons now.
hellcannon is sacked. This was hard, but I realized that the hellcannon is essentially just an anvil with stomp and a snazzy stonethrower shot. The damage output that the hellcannon provided was just not enough.
and lastly the Irondemon loses his hellbound upgrade. Hellbound I am now convinced is not as great as we think. If our opponents have the firepower to bring down the ID and want to kill it before it becomes a threat they will do so by turn 2, if not turn 1. If it added an extra 2 wounds that might be something but another 1 is just to darn insignificant for how many wounds a war machine can d6.
I have tested this new 2500 point lists against the msu Ogre list I lost against with my old list and got a massascre after his turn 3 lossing only 2 bcentaurs, 1 magma cannon, and 1 khan. Still need to get more games with it to work out the new problems this list now has. Hopefully I can fine-tune it for the next tournament on the 7th of August.
So here is the new 2500 list:
340- Sorc Prophet Lvl 3 Death
Dispel, Enchanted Shield, 4+ Ward
182- Infernal Castellan BSB
Sword of Might, Shield, 5+ Ward
XX- Hobo hero
Wolf+Spear
XX- Hobo Hero
Wolf+Spear
215- BCentaur hero
reroll first failed armor, 1+save, Charmed Shield, stubborn
For the past 20 or so days I have been testing new lists some with 3 magma cannons, some with 8 bull centaurs each one coming up kind of short. Some new problems I identified after playing quite a few games:
Magma Cannons have bad range.
Magma Cannons have an unreliable damage output being d3.
Magma Cannons are terrilbe against armor.
So to remedy this probelm, Ive came up with a new list and its pretty different from other LoA lists I wager. Ive so far tested it against an Ogre Kingdom player battle report is at the bottom of this wall of text. I should get to test the list against an experinced O&G player this friday and possibly some other opponents later this week. Will report back with at least a description on how the battles went if not a battle report.
Here is the new list I am using:
Sorc Prophet level 4 Hashut, Talisman of Preservation and earthing rod
Castellen Black Hammer (kills flamable outright +2str), Talisman of Endurance, Shield
Castellen BSB Sword of Anti-heroes, Enchanted shield, dawnstone
Demonsmith lvl1 death, dispel scroll
25 Blunderbuss Infernal Guards
Banner+Musician bsb goes here
23 Infernal Guard
Banner+Musician other Castellen here
Irondemon
Rocket (Hellbound) for ethereals.
______________________
Dreadquake Mortar (Hellbound) for more ethereals.
Slave Ogre
Dreadquake Mortar
Slave Ogre
LOA TURN 1:
Roll Breath of Hatred, Ashstorm, Hell Hammer, and Curse of Hashut.
Lvl 1 takes spirit leech.
I win first turn, and move my irondemon to answer the threat of my left flank. My artillery all take shots at his Ironblaster failing miserably.
OK T1:
Everything moves up the Ironblaster hits my Irondemon and only does 1 wound.
LOA T2:
Not wanting to repeat my blunder last round I aim my mortars at his Gutstar landing 2 direct hits sending 4 ogres to their graves. Rocket scatters off target aiming for the Ironblaster. Irondemon fails to hit the Stonehorn. I attempted to cast spirit leech on the Stonehorn as well but it is dispelled ashstorm is scrolled. Lastly the Infernal Guard unit moves up feeling confident that they can take out 4 maneaters.
OK T2:
Cats charge my Irondemon (opponent believed warbeasts were immune to stomps but they are not). Maneaters charge my infernals failing to ogrecharge. Everything else moves up; however, my opponents gutstar fails 3 dangerous terrain checks and loses another Ogre :hashut
Magic- He rolls high for wyssans on the maneaters, I scroll it. He then fails to get anything else off.
Shooting- Ironblaster hits my Mortar doing 2 wounds.
Close Combat- My Castellen with the Hammer kills 1 Maneater. Maneaters drop quite a few Guards. We hold.
Irondemon eats the cats.
LOA T3:
Blunderbuss unit swiftreforms and moves as 3inches directly out of the Gutstar charge range. Irondemon moves out of the Gutstars arc and prepares to shoot, not worrying if the Stonehorn charges it.
Magic: I cast hatred on my Infernals my opponet lets it go. I then roll the rest of my dice (About 5) for ashstorm on the Stonehorn, I get about a 25 and he fails to dispel.
Shooting: Everything shoots at the Gutstar reducing it to about 2 RNF Ogres and the Characters. Rocket finally kills the Ironblaster.
Close combat: Infernal Guard kill some more maneaters
OK T3
Gutstar moves to try to get into range of my left flank (he was very fearful of my Blunderbuss unit), His champion takes another wound to dangerous terrain. Stonehorn sits still.
He trys to get wyssans off on his Maneaters, I dispell it, I left Curse of Anraheim go through.
Close combat: Maneaters get slaughtered to a man. I reform my Infernals to charge the Stonehorn later.
LOA: T4
I try to get my Blunderbusses back into range but fail the leadership test for swift reforms…
Irondemon moves to block and hopefully kill the stornhorn.
Magic: I throw 6 dice at ashstorm and get it off on the Gutstar.
Shooting: Everything aims at the Guttstar to try to get some points. I miss all of the important targets. But do kill 2 more ogres leaving just the champion and the heroes.
Irondemon only manages to do 1 wound to the stonehorn.
OK T4
He moves everything, passing all dangerous terrain checks.
Stonehorn charges Irondemon and he gets the crazy modifiers.
Magic was meaningless because his important caster was under ashstorm.
CC: Stonehorn gets something like 9 or 11 impact hits only gets 1 through I pass the armor save.
LOA T5
Infernal Guard unit with the hammer charge the Stonehorn.
Blunderbuss unit moves to barely get in range of his heroes.
Magic: I throw everything once again at Ashstorm and get IF, rolling a 10 and losing 1 wizard level. He dispells BoHatred.
Shooting: Everything into his Heroes failing to get wounds but the splash from my motars kill the last champion getting me the Irongut points.
Closecombat: Casttellen gets 3 hits 1 wound and instantly kills the Stonehorn :hashut I reform to face the Gutstar.
OK T5
He chargers my Infernal Unit with the hammer, I dont let any spells get through, He does 4 Wounds I do 2 Wounds. He gives in.
I hope you enjoyed the report questions and comments are welcomed as well as advice and suggestions.
Additionally I feel that this is probably the worst (in terms of fun factor for your opponent) LOA list you can run, but it feels extremely reliable. Will post more battles soon.
That list could be nastier. Why not replace one of the mortars with a hellcanon out of curiosity? Similar shot, magical too, and can help out in close combat. I do worry about the lack of units that could slow down the enemy army. Armies like Bretonnia or cavalry focused elf armies I feel will be too fast for the majority of the army to be effective.
I feel your opponent deployed horribly in this battle.
Yea Hcannons have their merits, but mortars bring a ton of damage between dangerous terrain and str5 AP and I think the way this army is designed I need to maximize my ranged damage every turn.
Im debating on dropping the blunderbuss unit to get some khans seeing how they did not contribute to the battle.
Yea my opponent did, deploy poorly and id like to see how I do against him again with the same list.
