I am going to our local club tourney next weekend an have decided to take the chaos dwarfs even though they are unpainted. 3000pts lets me make a pretty nasty list, so here is what I am thinking at the moment…
Chaos Dwarf Hero (109) General Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the Cruel, Talisman of Protection
Chaos Dwarf Lord (443) Great Taurus Shield, Black Hammer of Hashut, Armour of the Furnace
Bull Centaur Hero (175) Battle Standard, Sword of Might, Armour of Gazrakh
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord (260) Level 4, Black Gem of Gnar
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer (125) Level 2, Dispel Scroll
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer (125) Level 2, Dispel Scroll
24 Chaos Dwarf Warriors (271) Full Command, War Banner
23 Chaos Dwarf Warriors (237) Full Command
15 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss (190)
15 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss (190)
15 Black Orcs (248) Shields, Full Command
4 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers (120)
2 Earthshakers (220)
Death Rocket (80)
6 Bull Centaurs (126) Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield
10 Hobgoblins (20)
10 Orc Arrer Boyz (60)
Casting Pool: 10 Dispel Pool: 6 Models in Army: 148
Total Army Cost: 2999
5 games over 2 days… It is a pretty hard list compared to what I usually like to play but I find that CDs start to run out of options around this points level. You can let me know what you think… lists have to be in by March so not long to think about it. I had a game today with a similar list which went ok… I got rid of the wolfriders and got a second earthshaker for this list. I will get pics up of the army soon… no paint but am hoping to have undercoat on most of the army this week…which means that the greenstuff and basing will be completed (pics will go in my army blog).
It may be because you have based the list around the models that you have available but i my opinion you are really going to struggle only having 2 fully ranked combat units. I would drop some stuff to get in at least another fully ranked unit of warriors plus 4 units of 20 naked hobgoblins - that will give you opponent lots of things to worry about and you lots of models to absorb any shooting, plus plenty of units to bait and flee with.
I allways take standards with my blunderbusses - it makes them into middleweight infantry.
On the black orcs - they are expensive so i only ever take 12 max (usually only 6) and use them 6 wide as a flanking unit - bigger units are just point sinks that attract a lot of fire.
I would drop a bull centaur (i assume the hero is going in the unit) as 7 wide is hard to move around and youa re likely in most instance to only get 6 models into base contact with an enemy unit
I would also take a few more dispel scrolls at 300 points you dont have a whole load of magic defense and with your current low model count - this could hurt you.
All of the above is of course purely my opinion and based on both my style of play and the fact i have an excess of models available to me so please feel to disregard and /or ignore as you see fit
Indeed I have based the list upon models that I have but I have a week to go and could always use some unit fillers to get things bulked out. I’m definately not the best player and find that if I have too many blocks of units I block units off and get in my own way. The tables we use will have plenty of terrain to get in my way.
I can see your point on the Black orcs… as yet mine have not seen much combat. I am also thinking that slightly larger BB units with full command may give me extra blocks that I could use more effectively in CC. My only concern is giving away points with banners… as it is I will find it hard to win table quarters.
I’m actually running the BC hero in a ranked warrior unit and use the BCs as a flanking force.
Hmm I think I will go and have a play around with the list… good thoughts… thanks uber
Took some of the advice I was given and made one of the BB units into a stronger infantry unit. 19 BB is fine as I intend to put the Sorceror lord in there… gives me ranks, standard etc. Dopped a few Black orcs and will probably run them in 2 ranks of 6. Added another unit of warriors, this time with great weapons to guard one flank of the warmachines… I think they will need it. Magic defence… hmm… I couldn’t justify taking any more scrolls, I’ll just have to be very selective about the ones I need to dispel. Anyway… this is the final list I sent in to the TO. Realistically not looking to win the tourney, but have fun and hopefully win a game would be nice. (will be taking an unpainted army, Oh my poor unloved army blog)
Chaos Dwarf Hero (109) General Heavy Armour,
Enchanted Shield, Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the Cruel, Talisman of Protection
Chaos Dwarf Lord (443) Great Taurus
Shield, Black Hammer of Hashut, Armour of the Furnace
Bull Centaur Hero (175) Battle Standard, Sword of Might, Armour of Gazrakh
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord (260) Level 4, Black Gem of Gnar
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer (125) Level 2, Dispel Scroll
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer (125) Level 2, Dispel Scroll
24 Chaos Dwarf Warriors (271) Full Command, War Banner
23 Chaos Dwarf Warriors (237) Full Command
19 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss (258) Full Command
15 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss (180)
10 Chaos Dwarf Warriors (110) Great weapons
12 Black Orcs (248) Shields, Full Command
4 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers (120)
2 Earthshakers (220)
6 Bull Centaurs (141) Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield Champ
If I were you I would cut the great weapon warriors for more hobgoblins, and i’d find a way to work in the chalice. You have enough magic that it would work for you rather than against you for most opponents.
I left it too late for re constructing the list and it has gone in as is. I’m putting a sorceror into the 19 strong BB unit hoping to have 3 ranks and a standard upon combat (probably still have at least 2 ranks).
The gw Warriors are basically a unit that I have that I could fit in, and youre right Uber… I could have left the Black orc command at home but alas it is too late now.
Check back in a week to see how they went. After that I may have some thoughts on how to trim it back down to 2250.
Game 1… 5-15 loss, against VC… just could not do enough damage to completely wipe out units… I did take out some pricey stuff though.
Game 2… 0-20 loss, against VC… there was one unit of Black Knights with a lord on steed with all the bells and whistles that auto hit and got extra attacks for wounds blah blah blah… he regularly did 6-8 wounds on the charge by himself, that unit collected about 2000pts by itself (also had the BSB in it)
Game 3… 17-3 win, My first big win for the Chaos Dwarfs, against Chaos Mortals, I miscast 3 times before turn 2, he got Infernal Gateway off 3 times with irresistable force and I still came out on top. My unit of 10 warriors with GW took out a daemon Prince by themselves. Twin earthshakers kept the opponent over his side for most of the game.
I am glad I got a win… I’ll have to wait and see what day two brings (Next game has me matched up against Dark elves.
A wrap up. Game 4… a 7-13 loss against Dark elves… 2 cauldrons, ring of H, 13 casting dice… slowed him down heaps with the earthshakers and avoided combats till round 4 then it all fell apart (damn assassins)… eternal hatred …ugh
Game 5… a 13-7 win against Dark elves dragon with unkillable lord (1+AS and reverse ward save), Hydra, and big chunk of executioners. Hydra gone turn 2 with pit of shades… bolt throwers and crossbows only got about 2 rounds of shooting due to earthshaker. Dragon got my sorceror lord, and overran into a block unit flank and then an earthshaker getting him a whole stack of points at the death of the game.
The Lord on a Taurus was awesome and did not die the entire tourney, I held him back and picked fights well (and used the flame template often)
Ended the tourney on 42 battle out of 100 with 2 wins (my aim was to win 1 game) Came 31st out of 36…I lost about 16 points overall for not having a painted army (If I had a painted army and picked those points up it would have put me up to 21st) Sports were good and I recieved good comp scores as well.
Aiming to use a similar list next year with only a few small changes… Lose the black orc command or make the unit bigger… Bull centaurs are cool but need to make a bigger unit of them or add some fast cav instead… Magic was perfect… just had to put sorcerors in units…and it was difficult to decide which ones sometimes… 2 Earthshakers is DA BOMB!! (only at 3000pts though… probably over the top in 2000) Taurus good… Hero General is also good but will need to look at kitting him out better Blunderbuss were excellent … 1 rank took out 8 out of 20 witch elves in one go, awesome. but don’t really work well as medium troops at this points level… need more or keep them smaller (the armour save was the problem).
I’ll try and fix this list up over the next few months so I can come back to it next year… as for now it will be back to 2250 for a while… (now to find my 2250pt thread!!!) Back to painting…
You did pretty well considering it was your first outing and you had 4 games against 2 of the armies currently percieved as being at the top of the power tree (VC and DE).
Add into the mix that painted models almost always perform better (its almost a fact ) and next time around you should do a lot better especially as you should have had some practice with them
dragon with unkillable lord (1+AS and reverse ward save), Hydra, and big chunk of executioners. Hydra gone turn 2 with pit of shades… bolt throwers and crossbows only got about 2 rounds of shooting due to earthshaker. Dragon got my sorceror lord, and overran into a block unit flank and then an earthshaker getting him a whole stack of points at the death of the game.