[Archive] 500 point list debate

Duke Lisle:

Hey folks,

I’m hopefully attending a 500 point tournament this weekend, and I can’t decide between either of these two lists. 2 things you need to know: Yes you can have half-sized regiments and no you don’t need heroes (a unit champion can be your general).

Here are the lists! Constructive criticism/advice would be greatly appreciated! cheers. :cheers

List #1

Daemonsmith Sorcerer 95

Ruby Ring of Ruin 25

Enchanted Shield 5



6 IG with Fireglaives        107



7 IG with Fireglaives        119



Magma Cannon        145



Total= 496



List 2



10 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard 120

Deathmask (champion/Army General) 12



16 hobgoblin cutthroats w/ bows 80



Iron Daemon War Engine         285

Total=497.

Marduk:

The iron daemon exceeds the 50% special units allowance.

Duke Lisle:

The iron daemon exceeds the 50% special units allowance.

Marduk
Ahh so it does. I spent all this time theorycrafting and I overlook the most essential thing!

Thank you for pointing that out. With that said. What do you think of the other list?

Hashut’s Blessing:

I’d say go for the second list, but switch out the Iron Daemon for a Magma Cannon and some Blunderbusses. BBs in small points games will ruin people.

EDIT: Or no Magma Cannon (due to an expected small target unit size) and go with as many BBs as possible in a single unit (people won’t expect larger units of tougher troops and you’ll get bonus offensive use out of the guns).

Marduk:

I like the idea of saving points on characters by having a Ld 9 champion as general, but I’m not sure about HB’s idea of BBs. The idea sounds great but without warmachines you have nothing to weaken the opponent while they march towards you and then you depend on getting a good result in one or two rounds of BB shooting.

I’d probably try champion general, 2 units of fireglaives and 1 unit of hobgoblins w/bows.

Duke Lisle:

Thanks for the advice all. I’m uncomfortable not bringing any type of long range support, be it magic or a war machine. Due to the small unit sizes, do you think a magma cannon or a deathshrieker rocket is better? I probably won’t bring a daemonsmith, so no re-roll. Which is statistically more likely to hit an opponent’s forces?

Marduk:

Which is statistically more likely to hit an opponent's forces?

Duke Lisle
Magma Cannon is more likely to hit, specially if there will be few and/or small units.

The Gib:

I am playing in an escalation league right now that started out at 500. I noticed in low point lists the CD seem to be able to dominate due to the fact the cannons are so cheap. I ran a minimum unit of IG along with a level 1 wizard on fire. I took the Fireball and the ruby ring, that way I am throwing two fireballs a turn. Never went past the tier 2 fireball so there was never a big risk of a miscast, but probably throw the charmed shield on him just in case. After that throw in a magma cannon and deathshrieker. If you wanted more shooting I would trade the IG for one of two u it’s of hobgoblins with bows. If anything scouts behind you just hit it with both fireballs. I was usually able to get at least one of them off a turn. Deathshrieker forces panic tests which can work great in small games as BSB is unlikely. It seems to me in these small games you have to go shooting heavy. CD just don’t have the fast close combat units for this level of points.

Duke Lisle:

I am playing in an escalation league right now that started out at 500. I noticed in low point lists the CD seem to be able to dominate due to the fact the cannons are so cheap. I ran a minimum unit of IG along with a level 1 wizard on fire. I took the Fireball and the ruby ring, that way I am throwing two fireballs a turn. Never went past the tier 2 fireball so there was never a big risk of a miscast, but probably throw the charmed shield on him just in case. After that throw in a magma cannon and deathshrieker. If you wanted more shooting I would trade the IG for one of two u it's of hobgoblins with bows. If anything scouts behind you just hit it with both fireballs. I was usually able to get at least one of them off a turn. Deathshrieker forces panic tests which can work great in small games as BSB is unlikely.  It seems to me in these small games you have to go shooting heavy. CD just don't have the fast close combat units for this level of points.

The Gib
Ahh I would totally bring the Deathshrieker AND the magma cannon if I could, but we're limited to 1 war machine or chariot for this tournament sadly. I think I'll stick with the magma cannon on this one (less likely to miss, etc.)

Here's my updated list:

Daemonsmith Sorcerer 95
Ruby Ring of Ruin 25
Enchanted Shield 5

5 Chaos Dwarf IG with Fireglaives 85

10 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard 120
Standard Bearer         10
Gleaming Pennant 5
Musician                 10

Magma Cannon        145


500 points total.

Marduk:

Charmed shield?

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

Duke Lisle:

Charmed shield?

Marduk
No the Enchanted shield + 2 armor. same price as the Charmed shield.

The Gib:

What lore will you have on the level 1 take? I like the 10 man bunker unit. Not sure if you know what armies you will be playing against, but the only reason I might would consider the Deathshrieker over the magma cannon is range. You can sit at the back and blast away at the units. Unless your opponents run 1 wide rank you are pretty assured to hit something with the re-rolls from the wizard and the second roll on the artillery dice. Also the Deathshrieker has a pretty good chance of killing other warmachines, plus forcing your opponent to take Ld tests each shooting phase can start to weigh down on them. At this point level either cannon could work, just keep in mind you will have to be closer to use the magma cannon.

Duke Lisle:

Not sure what armies will be there but it SOUNDS like Tomb Kings, Empire, and Dark Elves for sure.

I’ve had bad luck with the Deathshrieker even with rerolls, so I am not certain if I want to bring it over the Magma cannon. It is cheaper, that’s for sure.

Also I was planning on taking Lore of fire with the level 1. Two fireballs per turn is nasty (Ruby Ring of Ruin). Lore of metal is banned in this tourney I believe.

Marduk:

Charmed shield?

Marduk
No the Enchanted shield + 2 armor. same price as the Charmed shield.


Duke Lisle
I recommend the charmed shield which may save you from a Strength 10 hit caused by a miscast.

Marduk:

What lore will you have on the level 1 take?  I like the 10 man bunker unit.  Not sure if you know what armies you will be playing against, but the only reason I might would consider the Deathshrieker over the magma cannon is range.  You can sit at the back and blast away at the units.  Unless your opponents run 1 wide rank you are pretty assured to hit something with the re-rolls from the wizard and the second roll on the artillery dice.  Also the Deathshrieker has a pretty good chance of killing other warmachines, plus forcing your opponent to take Ld tests each shooting phase can start to weigh down on them.  At this point level either cannon could work, just keep in mind you will have to be closer to use the magma cannon.

The Gib
The magma cannon has a very good range: 24" plus artillery dice is more than enough most of the time.