[Archive] A couple of CD questions

GraaEminense:

Hi all, first post and so on. :hat off

I originally posted this on TWF, but with little response. Maelchz was kind enough to point me in this direction.

I’ve been playing with the Chaos Dwarf list for a bit, and I have a few questions I would like to know the consensus on.

1) What is the price of Common Magic Items for Chaos Dwarfs?

Do they use the costs from the outdated 6th ed book?

Do they use the most common costs from the current army books?

Do they simply have no access to these items, as they can’t pay for them?

2) Can Chaos Dwarf Orc Boyz be upgraded to Big’Uns?

I really can’t see why not.

3) What magic item list does Chaos Dwarf Black Orcs/Big’Uns buy their magic standards from?

It’s obviously either the O&G or the CD list. I can see arguments either way.

Answers/opinions?

Thank you. And I love the smilies. :cheers

Alan the evil:

1)you can use common magic items at these costs
sword of striking 30pts
sword of battle 25pts
sword of might 20pts
biting blade 10pts
enchanted shield 10pts
staff of sorcery 50pts
power stone 25pts
despell scroll 25pts
talisman of protection 15pts
war banner 25pts
2) yes they can.
3) CD can bring only war banner and banner of slavery.
Any kind of slave in CD army cannot bring magic standard.

GraaEminense:

Any kind of slave in CD army cannot bring magic standard.

Alan the evil
Whoah, why not? Says in their O&G list entry that they can. Did I miss some specification in the CD rules?

As for magic items... I do have the list, I do have the 6th ed book, but I lack an answer to what costs to use (and whether they as a result can't use them at all).

Alan the evil:

I posted magic items list.

Whoah, why not?
Why not? Because they are slave!!
Black orks and Big’uns cannot bring any magic standard… trust me.
Reasons are also posted somewhere in this forum… now I don’t remember where, but you gonna find them sooner or later.:wink:

Thommy H:

Black Orcs can’t according to an FAQ. There’s technically nothing saying that Big 'Uns can’t, though the spirit of the rules would suggest they can’t either. However, in either case, you would only be able to take the banners available to Chaos Dwarfs, not those from the Orcs and Goblins book.

Ancient History:

Just as a note, Ogres are Dogs of War units and by the FAQ certain of those can bring a banner from the Ogre Kingdoms army book.

GraaEminense:

One more question (though I’d still like an actual source for the “no magic standard for slaves”):

Chaos Dwarf and Dogs of War.

They’ll have access to both the normal DoW units and Ogres as per the normal rules for these, right? As Rare troops mostly?

snowblizz:

One more question (though I'd still like an actual source for the "no magic standard for slaves"):

Chaos Dwarf and Dogs of War.
They'll have access to both the normal DoW units and Ogres as per the normal rules for these, right? As Rare troops mostly?

GraaEminense
Yes. Like all armies in fact. This "you don't have a Rare entry in the AB" is complete nonsense and GW not knowing what one part is doing from another.

But I might be tired with alot of the nonesense GW has been spouting lately. I mean seriously, DoW was banned in new armies, but they could still take GIANTS!, I mean really.

All of this is opponents (TO's) permission anyway, so what does a little more "can I take this" matter.

cornixt:

The problem stemmed from the fact that they put an entry for them in the 6th ed armybooks even when it wasn’t needed and they actually admitted that some weren’t even rare units in those books. It was duplication of rules, so they stopped doing it. So when the newer books didn’t have those entries, people assumed that it meant they couldn’t take DoW units, even though the DoW rules quite clearly say they can!

None of the RH lists had DoW entries, but all could take them (except Brets I think)

Hashut’s Blessing:

  1. They use the points as in the 6th edition book, which is generally a baseline for the costs of the items in 7th edition.

    They can pay for them: in the original Ravening Hordes book, at the front it stated that all of the armies could take common magic items at the usual pricing (6th edition costs).

    2) They most certainly can and I always do (although +4pts/model is a little expensive, really).

    3) No, only Chaos Dwarf units can take a magic banner. The proof is in the list itself. “A standard bearer from the following units may carry a magic banner worth up to 50 points: Chaos Dwarf Warriors, or Bull Centaurs.” (In the paragraph entitled Champions, Musicians & Standard Bearers.) It’s been debated on the website before and answered in FAQs, but there is the definitive answer. Sorry for the let down… (P.S. The only other unit that can take a magic banner is a Chaos Dwarf Hero or Bull Centaur Hero that has been upgraded into a Battle Standard Bearer.)

Bolg:

General Rule question:

Can a CD Sorcerer have magic armour?

snowblizz:

General Rule question:

Can a CD Sorcerer have magic armour?

Bolg
In principle magic armour requires you to have an option for mundane armour.
Tricky with e.g. Chaos Sorcerors who already have Chaos armour, but it seems they are allowed to purchase magic armours to replace their Chaos Armour. Ok, so looking in the WoC there are a couple of line of semi-rules that say Chaos Sorcerors can purchase magic armour and magic shields.

Thommy H:

What do Chaos Sorcerers have to do with Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers?

If a character can’t have the mundane version of a magic item, then they cannot take the applicable magic item. Since Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers do not have access to armour of any variety, they can’t take magic armour either.

cornixt:

I think Snowblizz got confused with the Indy GT list.

snowblizz:

I think Snowblizz got confused with the Indy GT list.

cornixt
Well, I was answering a question by Bolg. I didn't have the RH & Indy-book to check which version it was in regards with.

I'm thinking about it in a general sense. What happens when a wizard HAS armour but no option to take it. There are almost no such cases I've found and WoC handles that by a specific wording, the Indy GT book has no such language.

And I'm never confused.

But I'm also curious if the Priest of Hashut would be allowed magic armour. According to the rules the answers seems to be: no.

Thommy H:

Since the Indy GT list doesn’t include any “Sorcerers” (just Priests and Daemonsmiths), I would assume Bolg was referring to the Ravening Hordes rules. Why are we talking about a general case anyway? The general case is that, if you can’t have the mundane version of an item, you can’t take the magic version either. Since Chaos Sorcerers already have mundane armour, they can take magic armour - that’s the logic for the specific case that is outlined in their book. If a Priest or Daemonsmith comes with armour, there’s precedent for them being able to take magic armour too.

But Sorcerers? They don’t come with armour, and they can’t take it as an option, so there’s no reason to imagine they might be able to take magic armour too.

Bolg:

Yes I was referring to the RH list. And I heard about the rule “if you can’t have the mundane version of an item, you can’t take the magic version either.” but I know of a lot of players who have somkind of wood elf BSB or other character with the hail of doom arrow and a magic bow to shoot them with cos he/she cant have a normal bow. so I was confused. also the model wears armour. but thanx. no armour for my sorcerer.

Where in the rulebook is the no mun. no magic rule so I can at least use the rule in my advantage next time.

Thommy H:

In the magic items section.