[Archive] A New Life for my CDs in Mantic?

Aman:

I have finalled sold off the vast majority of my massive Chaos Dwarf collection.  I have retained several painted units and a couple of unpainted ones that I intend to round out the little force.  It looks like two units of Blunderbusses, one of Axe/Sh, 2 full units of Bull Centaurs, two Deathrockets, two Earthshakers, and my full group of heroes / Lords.  The army is half finished, as in half the units are painted to a very high standard, and the other half is awaiting inspritation.

I will avoid a rant and just say that I cannot stomach Warhammer Fantasy at all anymore.  Enough said.

So I am looking at the Mantic rules.  They seem like GW lite - most of the taste, and 1/3 the suffering.  While I used to not be a huge fan of lite beer, now that I’m in my 31st year of miniature gaming, I’m seriously discovering the virtures of lite.

Anyway, the Abyssal Dwarf list is calling me with the Kings of War rules.  I downloaded the free rules, and what I’m thinking of is just playing the KoW rules and list straight, while mentally keeping everything fluff-wise Warhammer.  For Slaves, I was just going to use the Goblins as allies - after all, their universal special rules is “Utterly Spineless” which certainly sounds like slaves!

My other army is Empire, and it is 80% done, with lots of lovely heroes and units.  Even harder to part with.

Anyway, I was thinking about just sponsoring a few games with the figures at the local FLGS.  The owner said absolutely no problem.  The rules seem easy to teach, and I might even get RPG people who meet at the store to try it out.  Can’t go wrong with free rules, can you?  And I may not be the only one with figs who is fed up with 8th (and 7th, 6th, 5th…et al).

Anyone have any similar attempts and thoughts?

Hashut!

Thorne:

Take a look at n!tro’s blog for great thinks to do with mantic dwarves.

zobo1942:

I think that’s an excellent idea, and I’d be curious to hear the response you get!

starscream:

Like you I have been bitten by the Mantic bug.

Its not about the minis particularly (which seem to divide people), its more that Mantic seems to give me that feeling I had all those years ago when I discovered GW. Its like you’re part of something and the company wants you.

Its hard to put a finger on but I suspect you know what I mean.

To that end I have been building an undead army, loadsa lovely Mantic skellies and zombies retaining the GW stuff like terrorgiest or vargulf. Added a bunch of characters from Reaper too, its great to throw off the GW shackles and just create the best army possible from all ranges.

Murdock129:

I’ve been doing KoW with all my armies, since the rules are so similar, even armies like Ogres are easy to homebrew, and it’s much more enjoyable than Fantasy, not to mention a lot of the models are gorgeous, the only debatable ones are the elves and the dwarfs, but their so cheap mostly that that can be over looked

Thommy H:

I like Kings of War - I think that if all you’re looking for is a fun battle game to play, you can do a lot worse. But, for me, there’s not enough crunch in the system to get the same enjoyment that I do out of Warhammer. There’s so much nuance possible in Warhammer because of its idiosyncratic rules that you can do a lot of cool stuff, like all the monsters in Storm of Magic. In KoW, most of those monsters would be mechanically identical. Which is great on a game-by-game basis, but doesn’t lend itself to the kind of tinkering that I enjoy.

Samanos:

, the only debatable ones are the elves and the dwarfs, but their so cheap mostly that that can be over looked

Murdock129
I can understand about the elves but whats wrong with the dwarfs models??

Murdock129:

No idea, but I’ve heard a lot of people complaining about them around, probably that their not 80% beard

Thommy H:

They look like Playmobil.

Admiral:

They look like Playmobil.

Thommy H
Exactly. The space dwarf Forgefathers are good enough miniatures, however.

Aman:

@ Thommy H

from a design standpoint, GW has now become totally encumbered by rules and special rules. What good is nuance when you spend most of the game looking up rules, arguing about rules or figuring out rules. Also, the tendancy is to play the rules, not the game.

Let’s not deny it - probably all of us ended up trying to figure out how to use the rules to win the game, not sound tactics. I gave up on 7th when I got the Ogre book and counted 114 Special Rules for the Ogre Army alone. So just for ME to get to know the army, I had 114 Special Rules to keep track of. About 1/2 were similar to other books. The other half were unique or tweaked so that I’d have to page through the book constantly. That’s when I quit the first time. With 8th, several of the guys tried again, but after many playings, we’ve bagged it and no one plays it. We just have figs sitting in boxes.

Anyway, KoW looks like it can be easily tweaked using the variety of rules and special rules already there. Since the allied system is so generous, you can field something that is technically allied, but actually is modelled to fit your army. And that’s without tweaking.

Most importantly, streamlined rules means you get to think about tactics again.

Thommy H:

I don’t care whether I win games so, no, I don’t try to use the rules to win the game; I just get my toys out and play. And I like Bretonnian Knights being mechanically different from Empire Knightly Orders, even though they’re both “veteran human heavy cavalry”.

I spend much, much more time tinkering with rules than I do actually rolling dice though. I don’t spend much time looking up rules either, but then I am pretty content to fudge things if there’s ambiguity. I guess it depends what you want out of the experience.

Borin Sourfist:

Most importantly, streamlined rules means you get to think about tactics again.

Aman
This is why I've been playing increasing amounts of LoTR SBG over the last year.

I think WH 8th is the best edition yet. The core rules work fine for the most part. The problem is the slew of special rules that come with every army book. They add them for character, but they just add confusion. There would be enough variation between armies if they just used the USRs from the BRB with maybe one or two extras in each army book (resolute for Dwarfs, animosity for O&G). Instead we get the Skaven book..................

I won't stop playing it though, I love the background too much and haven't got the time or inclination to go and learn other systems.

Thommy H:

Are special rules really that confusing? Can’t you just, like, read them once and then remember them forever? That’s what I do anyway.

Borin Sourfist:

If only.

Confusion is maybe the wrong word. Looking up a rule is not confusing unless the rule was poorly written (but that is a different issue).

Thommy, your comparison of Empire vs Bret knights and wanting a different mechanic for each gives me a nice example of what I’d like to see in Warhammer army book writing. You can take exactly the same stat-line and equipment but make the Bret knights ‘monstrous cavalry’ (and adjust points accordingly). They now work in a different way to the Empire knights, 3 wide is a rank, 6 wide is horde, they have stomps etc. There is no need for a ‘lance formation’ rule in the Bret army book as everything you need to understand how to use that unit is contained in the BRB.

You can go further, upgrades that use the ‘Devastating Charge’ USR, Strength 4 Horses (nice with stomp), Grail Knights with 2 attacks on their profile making use of the monstrous support rule. Lots of variation all covered by profiles and already existing unit types and USRs from the BRB.

Troll Slayers is another good example. Do we really need ‘Slayer Axes’ and the ‘Slayer’ rule any more? Do they add to the background or gaming experience in a particularly meaningful way? Not really. You could stick an extra attack on a Troll Slayer’s profile and give him ‘Killing Blow’, it’ll have broadly the same effect in the game and is two less rules you need to remember (or reference during play). Give Giant, Dragon and Daemon Slayers ‘Heroic Killing Blow’ for some monster killing ability, job done.

khedyarl:

Bluntly put, if you’re looking for strategy and tactics in a game inherently based on rolling small quantities of dice (under a hundred), then you are playing the wrong game. If you desire a game that really uses the strategic centres in your brain, you should be playing Go, or Chess, or any number of games developed strictly with player choice as the priority. Warhammer is intended to be a ridiculous game with rat men firing laser guns, hordes of heavily armoured dudes flying around on Pegasi, and entire armies of fat drunk midgets swinging axes that are both as tall and wide as they are tall and wide.

The game’s myriad rules are there to make it entertaining. I wouldn’t play the game if everything was rolled into single statlines with just a few distinguishing rules seperating entire races. There’s simply no reason to restrict game options and homogenize rules, and to do it in a kind of “balance crusade” seems silly. The game’s becoming better with each new armybook that has been released, and books like Bretonnians and Dwarfs will get their turn. I’ve been playing since 3rd ed, and I’ve never had more fun with this ludicrous game.

Thommy H:

^ Facts.

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

Borin Sourfist:

Did I mention strategy, balance or tactics? No.

I like the madness of warhammer and as I’ve already said, I think 8th is the best I’ve played (since 3rd ed too), I just think it could be delivered with less thumbing through army books and still deliver the different flavours of crazy that we like. There is enough scope in the BRB to do that with just a tiny amount of army specific rules (animosity, etc).

Samanos:

I agree with Khedyarl as well.

I have never played KoW, but i have the rules and it looks like simplified warhammer with no magic to me. I dont understand your problem to be honest. most players learn the rules by heart after so many battles and its not like you have to learn many new rules between editions.

Samanos:

I agree with Khedyarl as well.

I have never played KoW, but i have the rules and it looks like simplified warhammer with no magic to me. I dont understand your problem to be honest. most players learn the rules by heart after so many battles and its not like you have to learn many new rules between editions.