[Archive] Advertising on CDO?

Archive [Archive] Site Suggestions
1

zobo1942:

Hi,

Just curious - has there been any thought given to advertising on the website (like banner ads, etc…) for hobby companies, or even for the talented folks here who sculpt, cast and design thier own miniature lines? Personally, I think it would be a great way to promote these companies, the skills of the talented people here, and Chaos Dwarf-iness, generally.

Several companies already advertise on the site through postings in the various threads, etc… so I don’t really think it would change the character or flavour of the site - it would just make it more accessible.

A lot of people would probably think it might be a hassle, but I know that in physical magazines, half of my enjoyment tends to be towards the adverts - ‘The Earth is Flat!’ ‘Government Conspiracy!’ ‘Beyond Parity Cellphone Charger!’ ‘Hollow Earth Invasion of the Surface World Imminent!’ 'Build Your Own Time Machine! - or, like the old ‘Dragon’ and ‘Dungeon’ magazines ads for gaming software solutions, video games, unique products and events.

I’m sure some people would say ‘As soon as you introduce money into something, it stops being community-driven!’ And they would be correct, to a degree. However, I still think that it would be a great way to ‘get the word out’ not only on the amazing ‘in-house’ projects and competitions, but also on unique and interesting products from other manufacturers.

Just a thought. What do others think?

2

nitroglysarine:

might be a shame someone has paid to have this site free of ads (i’m guessing)

It would be a shame for their money to used, and to still have adds.

Maybe a thread (if it doesn’t already exist that is) with a list of sites, what they do and links perhaps?

3

zobo1942:

Personally (and this may be just me) I don’t find ads to be annoying or irritating, as long as they don’t interfere with viewing the site - I actually like them, if they are advertising something that I’m interested in learning more about. They don’t nescessarily need to be PAID advertising, although they could easily be.

For example, the ‘chaos dwarfs online’ banner at the top of the screen - what if it cycled every fifteen seconds, and showed information about ‘golden hat’ competitions? Or ‘artisan’ competitions? Or a link to CDO members’ miniatures companies? Or context-specific retailers?

I don’t think that would be so bad - quite the opposite, actually. Browsing the CDO site, and thinking ‘Wow, I’d like to build a really cool Daemon Engine!’ and having a link (read: ad) for buying bulk plasticard, or something similar, could be a great help.

Thanks for your opinion! Any others?

4

Anonymouse:

I personally despise advertisements and all other forms of commercialism (which is a bit weird when thinking about GW products et al :P). When I read magazines, most of my irritation is invoked by the constant unwanted barrage of ads I’m not interested in, for products I haven’t got the faintest interest in buying.

THis doesn’t mean I am not prepared to accept some sort of advertisement (the GW-website itself, for instance) but I like this forum because it has NO ads. The banner from this website itself doesn’t count. I know I am on this website. However, I have no interest whatsoever to be ‘pushed’ into visiting other sites.

Which brings me to point two: this is, as far as I know, a non-profit web-site. Any form of advertisement would be contrary to the safe position this website has: expressly declaring this site is non-profit means GW can’t sue (which they could do if there was any money earned here).

Thirdly; why on Earth do you want ads when these manufacturers can become members and point out their work? If people want to show their stuff, I’m always interested to see their work. If they want to make money, why don’t they start their own website?

Here endeth the rambling (for now at least :P)

5

Hashut’s Blessing:

Ultimately, the system that we currently have isn’t broken, so I don’t see the need to fix it. However, we always take on board what members ask for/suggest. In light of that, we don’t actually stop people have small advertisements, although they are less advertisements and more mentions of “Hey, looka t this cool place that I found (and it should be noted am not getting paid for showing off to everyone)”.

Xander pays for this website out of his own pocket and receives no money from the website/forum/wiki etc. To start using the forum as a place for people to get free advertising is against the point and (likely) policies of the site. People can link to places they think people may find useful (such as the Pandora models thread) and can have a link to their own store that is relevant and a service to us (such as Baggronor’s website or a link to someone’s list of prices for commission painting), but to start having adverts for (E.G.) Games Workshop is generally detrimental to the website and, no offence, IMHO a slightly odd request.

People join websites and see adverts and have the option to pay an amount of money to avoid advertisements: that option is there because some people can’t be bothered to waste money avoiding them, but others hate them so much that they will gladly pay to be rid of them.

Adverts detract from the point of everything: CDO isn’t a place to sell stuff, it’s a place for like-minded individuals to meet, discuss, chat, showcase, interact and so on.

As I said, I hope nothing I’ve said comes across as offencive, especially as it’s not been intended that way, but I do feel that your opinion on this is very much in the minority.

6

nitroglysarine:

on that note, thank you Xander!

7

warh:


Ultimately, the system that we currently have isn't broken, so I don't see the need to fix it. However, we always take on board what members ask for/suggest. In light of that, we don't actually stop people have small advertisements, although they are less advertisements and more mentions of "Hey, looka t this cool place that I found (and it should be noted am not getting paid for showing off to everyone)".

Xander pays for this website out of his own pocket and receives no money from the website/forum/wiki etc. To start using the forum as a place for people to get free advertising is against the point and (likely) policies of the site. People can link to places they think people may find useful (such as the Pandora models thread) and can have a link to their own store that is relevant and a service to us (such as Baggronor's website or a link to someone's list of prices for commission painting), but to start having adverts for (E.G.) Games Workshop is generally detrimental to the website and, no offence, IMHO a slightly odd request.

People join websites and see adverts and have the option to pay an amount of money to avoid advertisements: that option is there because some people can't be bothered to waste money avoiding them, but others hate them so much that they will gladly pay to be rid of them.

Adverts detract from the point of everything: CDO isn't a place to sell stuff, it's a place for like-minded individuals to meet, discuss, chat, showcase, interact and so on.

As I said, I hope nothing I've said comes across as offencive, especially as it's not been intended that way, but I do feel that your opinion on this is very much in the minority.


Hashut's Blessing
I fully agree with you HB!

this is a friendly communety not a market
8

Xander:

Advertisements have been discussed before. Enough people don’t like advertisements that I didn’t see the need to put any on the site. If anything, I would look to companies that produce products that would be of use to Chaos Dwarf players, namely, Titan Wargames, The Warstore (Battlewagon Bits), or Smooth-On (mold/cast supplies). In other words, the advertisements would be very useful for users of the forum.

I am going to be doing some modifications to the search page (the page used to generate pages like the View Today’s Posts) which should help make CDO easier to browse and find relevant content. Perhaps this page could include a trial-run of advertisements on it. That way regular browsing of the site wouldn’t show any advertisements at all. I am still not sure on this idea, but it’s a thought.

Feedback on it would be most welcome.

9

zobo1942:

No offence taken! I’m just trying to understand people’s attitudes a little better.

I’ve seen so many ‘signature advertisments’ and advertising threads (ie. ‘Chaos Dwarfs by Dave King’, ‘Trollforged Miniatures’, ‘Titan Wargames’, etc…), that it seemed a natural progression to consolidate them, and create… a ‘mutual growth symbiosis’. How’s that for a descriptor? A lot of these types of advertisments lead to websites which sell products, which are really amazing. And if a user isn’t constantly checking in on things, (s)he is sure to miss them. Also, an ‘Ad’ doesn’t mean they have to be revenue-generating… As I mentioned earlier, an ‘Ad’ could about ‘golden hat’ competitions, ‘artisan’ competitions, ‘sister site’ notifications, charitable drives, or even (gasp!) a member’s own start-up miniature production company. Or for a company that provides useful products for hobbyists. Perhaps displaying ads in the marketplace forum only would be an interesting idea as it’s full of ads, anyway. Yes, they’re threads, but they are still advertisments.

Regarding the ‘no revenue = not getting sued’, I don’t know anything about that, as I’m not a lawyer. It seems to me putting up an ad for ‘Screaming Mad Cow Miniatures’ (just an example - I hope that isn’t a real company) and getting $5 for it wouldn’t be illegal, as long as neither party is doing anything illegal. But, like I said, I’m not a lawyer, and I could be wrong.

Personally, I don’t think that ads would detract from the site at all and I’m not sure why they would annoy people so much, as long as they aren’t the horrible ‘man running across screen’ type of ad that forces you to interact with it. Then again, I’ve got an extremely fast and reliable internet connection, so that may be it.

The reason I’m curious about this is that I’ve been a bit obsessed lately with trying to understand how people monetize digital assets. A lot of people seem to think that if something is digitally-based, it should be free - which is insane. I’ve read posts on other forums where people freak out and rave for pages when asked to pay $1.99 for a useful Android or iPod application, usually because it has a branded ‘splash screen’ when it boots. Which stuns me, since a cup of coffee tops $2. Same with parking for an hour. And regarding the ‘make your own website’ comment, a lot of people/companies already do that. How do you inform people that your site exists? Some form of advertising, usually, be it a banner ad, something you get in the mail or see on television, or word of mouth (advertising from a trusted source- a friend). It’s not evil, it just is.

Like I said, I’m just curious about people’s attitudes and ideas. We had a similar discussion about the ‘Word of Hashut’ magazine, and how I’d have no problem dropping a couple of bucks for the download (awesome publication, by the way - I’m looking forward to the next one!). I certainly am not trying to ‘influence policy’ or promote commercialization… Just that I, personally, wouldn’t be adverse to seeing them, and (strangely, perhaps) would welcome useful and appropriate adversting. And if anyone mass-produced a resin cast and magnetized daemonic engine construction kit, I’d be all over it.

10

Xander:

If you are interested in digital assets, watch this video.

What you are mostly talking about isn’t advertisements, but internal spotlighting of sections and articles.

11

zobo1942:

Well, what I mean is both. Internal spotlighting of sections, articles, events, etc… but also having advertising from companies who offer the type of specialized products a CDO user would find useful. I’m not talking about ‘Save on your Car Insurance!’ or 'New Tide! With

12

cornixt:

It seems to me that we already have most of what you are asking about Zobo. The modelling sections has lots of links, the wiki also, people make threads about stuff being made, etc.

13

nitroglysarine:

.......Some people wouldn't welcome it, but I sure would.

zobo1942
Wouldn't that be covered by a simple updating list of sites of resources to buy certain things eg....

www.hammertime.co.eg -good place to buy hammers for CD's

www.motiesshuttlecrafts.co.uk -suppliers of nice CD hats.

we've done that on a forum i'm a mod on to clean up threads, simply have a stickied thread that people put a link up on an thread, at some point an admin comes around, copies the links onto the first post with the rest of them, then cleans up the thread.
-would that work for eveyone?
14

Hashut’s Blessing:

As you said, members currently have links/banners in their signatures, which is fine. Plastering adverts all over the website isn’t quite so much so IMO.

However, I think I agree that it wouldn’t be too problematic in the Market Place, as long as they passed scrutiny by either Xander or perhaps the staff (to lighten his load on the matter :smiley: ) and weren’t so numerous as to make the Market Place threads less noticeable. A single banner, maybe two, which changed advert randomly when you entered the Market Place (but not continuously scrolling/changing to save bandwidth, etc) seems appropriate.

Either that or create a stickied thread (in the Market Place) for people to post an advertisement? With some method of it always cropping up in “View New Posts” or marked Unread or appear in “View Today’s Posts” or something?

15

Hashut’s Blessing:

Sorry for the double, but I took so long typing that the posts after Xander’s mean I need to add some things.

It seems to me that we already have most of what you are asking about Zobo. The modelling sections has lots of links, the wiki also, people make threads about stuff being made, etc.

cornixt
Exactly, which is why I was saying they would be a little redundant. If it’s useful to us, it’s posted up (whether already or if it gets posted when found).
…Some people wouldn’t welcome it, but I sure would.

zobo1942
Wouldn’t that be covered by a simple updating list of sites of resources to buy certain things eg…

www.hammertime.co.eg -good place to buy hammers for CD’s

www.motiesshuttlecrafts.co.uk -suppliers of nice CD hats.

we’ve done that on a forum i’m a mod on to clean up threads, simply have a stickied thread that people put a link up on an thread, at some point an admin comes around, copies the links onto the first post with the rest of them, then cleans up the thread.

-would that work for eveyone?



nitroglysarine
We already have this as well and is stickied too.

16

nitroglysarine:

Ah cool, beat me to the idea :smiley:

17

zobo1942:

Well, as I mentioned earlier, I really like the idea of having relevant advertising present for the exploration of people who are interested in it. It seems that the majority of the users on this site are really, really experienced and have knowledge of some resources and suppliers some people (like me) are unaware of. Maybe a well placed ad highlighting those suppliers could help change that, and maybe a CDO discount could be arranged. And, just so you know, no - I’m not selling anything, nor do I have any plans to do so in the future.

Also, the survival of this site (financially, anyway) seems to rest on the shoulders of a single person and that feels somewhat unfair to me, as I get so much out of it. I don’t have the skills or expertise yet (although I will if I keep reading the threads and trying to improve!) to create a series of miniatures, sets of which I could donate to be used as prizes for competitions or sold to help cover the costs of running the site - I thought that some truly relevant advertising could help the site pay for itself, and actually be a benefit the users of the site. ‘Non-profit’ does not mean ‘Non-revenue generating’. If there was a ‘donate’ button, I’d click on it.

As I said previously, I’m not talking about random advertising, but working together with the companies which members here have created or others which provide products or services which are directly related to the interests of members, and facilitating contacting them easy though a ‘click-on’ ad, as opposed to digging through forum sub-directories and posts trying to find them. I’m confident that there could be a way to devise a system whereby everyone benefits, such as only having ads placed in the ‘Marketplace’ forum - I think that’s a really good idea. I’m not talking about marketing a ‘Dark Dwarf Battalion Box, presented by Chaos Dwarfs Online’ which contains miniatures and a rulebook created by members… although now that I think of it, that would be cool but an entirely different discussion.

I’d like to thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion - it’s really interesting to see the varied opinions of people present, and why they feel the way they do. Please keep expressing your opinions and ideas - would you find relevant advertising useful (maybe only in the Market Place forum), or would it really bother you? Do you have any other ideas?

EDIT: also - Maybe a Chaos Dwarfs Online fundraiser of some kind? Thoughts?

18

Hashut’s Blessing:

It’s not that most members on the forum are exeprienced: in fact, it’s actually a minority, but it’s mostly those that are most commonly seen. The way that people find the resources is by looking at the resources thread and reading through the forums and finding the threads that show up newly found sources. I admit that maybe we need some way of collating those that have fallen quiet, but they usually go into the resource thread anyway: tidy, stickied, easy to find them all and not advertising. I think that advertising as advertising is a big no, really, however, showcasing companies isn’t an idea I’m adverse to - which at first seemed to be what you were meaning, until the mention of a CDO discount. First of all, that would incorporate business decisions, trying to arrange a discount and then it becomes a case of the company getting free advertising. If they got free advertising, everyone else would - but if they paid, then we’d be legally liable for that fact.

Believe me, the staff have discussed the payment for the website with Xander a dozen times before and he insists that it’s fine, however, it’s been agreed that if it ever became problematic, the staffers would simply pay between us (with over half a dozen of us, it wouldn’t be difficult). If you feel it’s unfair that you get so much out, then just put in with content and adhering to the mission statement and forum rules (note: I’m not saying that you don’t :wink: ) - Xander wanted this place so we could all benefit from it, which is only done by all contributing content to it. Donating miniatures for competitions is a great thought - in fact, Baggronor has a model for the Golden Veteran’s medal (when someone achieves it) and other items have been donated (such as White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs) (note: I offered to cover Baggronor’s costs, but he said if people pay the p&p, he’s happy to do it). The advertising would help to pay for itself, except we then risk the ire of GW and I think it wouldn’t benefit the users as much as you think it might - it may be that we need to have a banner (that changes when refreshed) with links to the resources we currently have found or rather to the thread that has them in or simply have a banner linked to the resource thread, which makes a LOT of sense to have and is a great suggestion, IMO: however, we DO have to be non-revenue generating because GW have threatened legal action on various things that were non-profit, but still covered costs (including us, when we had a t-shirt project going on) - I thinky ou agree that it’s unfair for Xander to take that risk…

I know that you aren’t suggesting randoma dvertising, hence my mention of the staff having to review each one and decided on a case-by-case basis. I have no problem with people linking to their own websites, but creating a specific advertising space creates more problems than it solves, to my knowledge of the situation. Members have plenty of coverage for their companies (Twisted Tales and Titan Games being two prominent examples: both have threads and both have banner-links in signatures). As for non-member companies that are useful to members, we have the resource thread (which we may need to update more frequently if it’s not up-to-date enough and maybe have that advertised on all pages instead), which I’d have thought was fairly easy to find - the fact that you’re saying it’s not, clearly means it isn’t, so it may be better to make a link that’s very prominent to that thread - much more efficient and less problematic than advertising. The more that I think about it, the more I find the thought of splaying the resource thread (which may need to be more diligently updated) across pages as being the solution, rather than trying to moderate the application of advertisements, even if confined to the Market Place, which is the only place I think that it might be appropriate to have the adverts. On the last point: if people want to do that, they can, but it can’t be a Warhammer one (meaning the book can’t have any GW IP, such as rules compatible with WHF, fluff from GW, names from GW, pictures from them, etc etc and that the box of models can contain no GW parts whatsoever, not even their bases).

If you would like to set-up a fundraiser, it sounds like a good project. However, be wary of how you go about it because GW legal will be all over you if you use their IP to make money, no matter how/why you do it, nor how much you make. Not to put a downer on it, but we are ever-wary of GW’s zealousness and don’t want a member in straits because they’ve not been warned :wink: