[Archive] Are Chaos Dwarfs a "Proxied Army"? (Am I unfair? - long read.)


I proxy BfSP Goblins as Hobgoblins and nobody has complained yet…


I use Night Gobbo archers (mixed in the old hobgob archers) and gnoblars as my Hobgoblins.


I field an original bighat army at our gw sponsored championships every 2nd year. We have a no proxy rule. Another player occasionally fields an army of cd’s made entirely of conversions. This is entirely legal since a conversion is NOT a proxy. The only restriction is that because the tourney is GW sponsored, the majority of the model must be of gw parts.

He also gets more painting points than me because his army is made entirely of conversions, whereas mine is made merely of original models. This is also right and proper, because conversions are part of the hobby. I.e. conversions are rewarded, not penalised.

He has no case.


Conversions are not proxies. Plain and simple.

Even using Night Goblings as Hobgoblin is not totally proxying, as it is quite clear who/what they are. Using a mish mash of races as Slaves for Skaven is justifiable given the background material.

Using Empire Greatswords as Stormvermin, however, is proxying. Using a Chaos Chariot as a Stank is proxying. Using a Stank as a War Alter is not only proxying, but confusing (unless it’s been converted to be a steam driven War Alter).


Chaos Dwarfs are and offical games-workshop army, although the Ravening Hordes book is still a bit dated and some rules are more difficult even with the errata. Now if your playing with the “unofficial” chaos dwarf armybook then there could be more of a fairness issue… but with the RH not so much.

Conversions and scratch builds are not necessarily proxies but one persons vision of what they want their mini to be. Taking an ogre and calling it a minotaur is more proxie-esque, but still subjective. As time marches on, new players only see the current version and what its following, little have any knowledge of the games richer history with more characterful models. The other thing is whether they are creating their own rules for the creations or just creating dymanic models from their own vision.

Bad proxies detract from games and sales… i remember an old epic game where someone had proxied soda cans for titans. Not modeled up soda cans… a soda they were drinking… just the can stomping around the field.

it proxie and such could boil down to definition and perhaps a blurb about it with the house rules might help.

Your store, your call, dont let some sniveling grot whiney git mess with your enjoyment and community service by having opened your biz with the expanded area for warhammer. Maybe some fluff decor of previous armies… the old pics and stuff that lends to the credibilty of the culture.


I look at it this way, if someone spends hundred of hours modifying an army to make it into something that is cool and works and is a WYSIWYG model then it should count.

To insist on the exact models is only making people spend money they don’t have to, and restricting creativity.

If a GW user wanted to stop creativity then why does Green Stuff sell?

hashuts lil helper:

Look, I don’t want to tell you what to do as a store owner, but proxies are the way that people try things out. If you want to make the rule for a tourney, that’s one thing, but for an everyday club night it seems like a bad idea. Lets say i am wondering what army to start next, and decide to give helves a try, but all i have is the new boxed set. I would like to try them out before buying them all, so I proxy. But you, my flgs owner says no proxies in my house. I decide you are a prig, and go try out my Helv army elsewhere where they let me proxy. Guess which one of you I will buy my figs from when eventually its time to buy. Sure it’s annoying to be playing the same guys with the same crap armies week after week. but most people will not want to drop 50 $ on a unit or 500 on an army without test driving it. I suppose you could keep 1 of each hanging built around the store and that would solve your problem, but as an owner, it is your problem, not theirs; and the guy who went out to buy the Orien is probably the exception not the rule.

Oh and conversions are still not the same as proxies, proxies, however if used sparingly are not bad.


I think it’s fair enough having a no proxy rule in your store however I have to echo the comments of some of my peers, the ability to proxy models does allow people to try out new stuff without making the painful purchase that it requires.

I think your Lizardman friend is being a little unsporting, however he is I assume a customer and as such is important. I would just change your house rules, making sure they are clear and without question.

Everyone gangs up on you during games because they see you as a challenge. The guy that runs the games. You represent the top of the group and as such the main focus of their in game fears and goals. It won’t last forever, as soon as they realise that your army is a soft touch they will probably gang up on someone else. So I say enjoy it while it lasts.



When I started playing emire at the start of 6th edition, I played for months using footsoldiers without arms.

The boxed set had the option to either give them swords or halberds, and I proxied my armless troopers as either untill I had figured out what worked best for me.

This type of proxying is (in my opinion) totally accepteable.

One of the best stories I’ve ever heard is one that already has gotten the stauts of ‘urban legend’ in Antwerp. However, I have heard this story first hand from the persons that were there at the time, and all their versions are the same…

The story goes as follows:

Person A sets up a date to battle with person B in our local games store (which was called Lonely Mountain back then).

At said date, person A arrives and starts setting up his (really awesomely) painted dwarfs. Half an hour late, person B walks in, and starts unloading very small boxes from a bigger box. Person A also notices that person B has every armybook with him.

Then, person B selects one of his amrybooks and asks person A if he would mind playing against that army. Person A says he doesn’t…

Next, person B starts opening the smaller boxes, and unloads an entire army made from Lego.

Person B had bought a huge lot of Lego, and had decided that these little men could proxy for EVERY army that had a legitimate armybook.

Needless to say, person A laughed, stored his army back into his carrying case and left the store.

In my opinion, this type of proxying is NOT DONE!

(though I’m still not a huge fan of WYSIWYG, as long as you’ve made clear what the character/unit/… is carrying before the battle commences).

Tarrakk Blackhand:

WOW! This is an old post! :smiley:

I have a new set of players who aren’t “Hung up” on these details. In fact, they let me play my (erroniously built) 15 Chaos Dwarfs with maces as WYSIWYG, giving them the +1 attack bonus in the first round of combat (Or however it works, as I am not reading the rule book while I type this!)

Let’s hope that the new Warhammer Forge will allow the Chaos Dwarf army to resurface as Forge world gave the Baneblade tank to 40K!

Thommy H:

A mace is just a hand weapon. A morning star (a mace with a chain) gives you +1 Strength in the first round of combat.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Not bothered to read EVERYONE’s replies after reading the original post, but most of them have said my first thought: A proxy is using something to represent a model, a conversion is making the model from other things.

E.G. Proxying would be using a base of Nugrlings to represent a Minotaur Lord - it’s just to have the right base size available. Converting would be giving a Dwarf a big hat/a Chaos Warrior a flailing tentacle, etc - it’s to represent the model that would be there, but allows a little creativity into the piece.

As to the Lizardman player: add a few conversions into his army if you’re making it.

Lastly, as the store owner, you have the final say on what is a proxy, what is a conversion and who is being a douche and gets “time out”.