Honeym123:
This is not a bashing of the ETC. This thread is to hear your openions on how competitive the CD are under the ETC restrictions. The reason I ask is that in the area where I live, ETC is pretty much the only thing being played and I really like to win, so I would like a really competitive army 
Kind regards
Willmark:
I’ll echo keep it civil because ETC seems to get everyone up in arms.
Honeym123:
The list of debate is of course the one from Tamurkhan.
Grimbold Blackhammer:
I have the luxury of not playing ETC-Warhammer but from what I can tell they hit us unreasonably hard. Or more to the point, I don’t see a strong battle plan left intact. Because in Tamurkan a unit is generally quite good or quite bad for its cost with few if any units left in the middle, the limits placed on the good units forces us to rely on just, plain over-costed units. And we can’t field enough of them to be competitive. Now that being said, anyone can field Dark Elves/Skaven/Lizardmen and expect to win a lot of their games. A true General shines when he wins an uphill battle!
Samanos:
Personally I think they are one of the most competitive armies in the ETC.
keep in mind that the match up plays a very big role in how you perform.
That being said they could have hit us much harder than they did. And if you look over the restrictions on other armies (VC, DE for example) you’ll see that we are not that bad…
KramDratta:
How exactly are they not overcomped?
2 out of 4 lores are restricted to four dice casting. We are the only race that have its own lore limited to 4 dice.
Also, Death has been ETC FAQed to ignore modifiers, so Doom & Darkness & Spirit Leech don’t combine.
Chalice is ETC FAQed to work before or after a spell, yet still can’t be taken with a Prophet
Bale Taurus, or even a Lammassu with Breath weapon count as a warmachine
Iron Daemon counts as a warmachine, even if it takes the Skullcracker upgrade & doesn’t shoot
K’Daai counts as 2 warmachines
You can take a max of 3 ‘warmachines’ with Strength 5 templates and only 1 can be a Hell Cannon
What Draft 3 does is force you into specific builds, because of the internal balance limitations of the Tamurkhan book on top of the restrictions.
Ex:
To take a Taur’ruk you have to buy a unit of Centaurs.
Taur’ruk cannot be General or BSB so you need to spend points on them as well.
You are limited what to take in Special & Rare (Fireborn / Giant are over costed for what they do)
Hobgoblin Wolf riders need baby-sitting due to Animosity
Samanos:
How exactly are they not overcomped?1) to be fair we are the only race with a lore that has 2 good spells and those overpowered. Death is ok at 4 dice (would prefer 5 but still)
1)2 out of 4 lores are restricted to four dice casting. We are the only race that have its own lore limited to 4 dice.
1)Also, Death has been ETC FAQed to ignore modifiers, so Doom & Darkness & Spirit Leech don't combine.
3)Chalice is ETC FAQed to work before or after a spell, yet still can't be taken with a Prophet
4)Bale Taurus, or even a Lammassu with Breath weapon count as a warmachine
5)Iron Daemon counts as a warmachine, even if it takes the Skullcracker upgrade & doesn't shoot
6)K'Daai counts as 2 warmachines
7)You can take a max of 3 'warmachines' with Strength 5 templates and only 1 can be a Hell Cannon
8)What Draft 3 does is force you into specific builds, because of the internal balance limitations of the Tamurkhan book on top of the restrictions.
Ex:
To take a Taur'ruk you have to buy a unit of Centaurs.
Taur'ruk cannot be General or BSB so you need to spend points on them as well.
You are limited what to take in Special & Rare (Fireborn / Giant are over costed for what they do)
Hobgoblin Wolf riders need baby-sitting due to Animosity
KramDratta
Grimbold Blackhammer:
I’m fine with the Chalice of Blood and Darkness only working before or after a spell is cast. What I don’t understand is why you’d only want your Sorcerer-Prophet to take it - isn’t that the worst place to put it?
KramDratta:
besides the question was not if they were overcmped or not but if they were competitive or not. imo they areI agree with you. If you design your army against a certain type of enemy (ex regen armies), then yes it is still competitive. My problem would be that you're betting on the matchup process ... but then isn't that half the fun of ETC ;)
Samanos
Samanos:
@Grimbold: sorry I was unclear. I meant I use it in combination with a lvl 4. a lvl2 will hold it.
@Kram: Well I am not a player in any team or anything, and I try to make the list as all around as possible since I go to single events not team, but yeah there certain match ups that they cannot face in the ETC you are right. When such a match up occurs the only thing left to do is laugh at the inferiority of your enemies, raise your shield and axe, praise the glory of Hashut and prepare to sell your life dearly
Honeym123:
So to sum up :
We are competetive and we have advantages over some and not over others The reason why I asked was because I have a really large collection of CD and thought that beastmen (Yeah I know, they are supposed to be bad) would be a fun army, and a lot cheaper to own than the CD, so if the CD was not that competitive, I might as well make some money and make my self a fun army (beastmen) and a competitive army
Thank you for the answers!
Kind regards
RiTides:
The problem with the matchup argument is events who just copy/paste ETC restrictions for individual (not team) events. Luckily, no tournies I am near or consider traveling to do this
tangoraven:
I think that CD is amongst the most competitive armies available in the ETC. They have access to three types of S5 shooting templates that can be further boosted with engineer rerolls, the K’daai destroyer which is frankly the best monster in the game and the Taur’ruks which look like Scar-Veterans on steroids which incidentally are comped in the LM army.
For a dwarf army, you get Wolfraiders and Khans on Wolfs which are amazing redirectors and not comped by ETC. You get relatively cheap gobbos to you need to boost the army’s numbers. And wow, bull centaur renders (a little weak for Monsterous type troops) have Mv 7 and are swiftstride. They zoom around so much faster compared to regular dwarfs…
On the flip side, CD core is slightly overcosted, you get S4 IGs for 12 pts and GW IGs for 15pts which is costlier than their vanilla core dwarf counterparts. The prophet is way expensive at 300 pts for Lv 4 wizard if you don’t want him to fight and he can’t beat down most other lord level fighty characters anyway.
GodHead:
the K'daai destroyer which is frankly the best monster in the gameFrostheart Phoenix for 85 points less blows a Destroyer out of the water. Especially when every single High Elf player takes 2.
rubencm81:
Really?the K'daai destroyer which is frankly the best monster in the gameFrostheart Phoenix for 85 points less blows a Destroyer out of the water. Especially when every single High Elf player takes 2.
Warhammer players, especially High Elf players, are no longer allowed to complain about the Destroyer.
GodHead
Hashut’s Blessing:
Please do NOT post entire stat lines (or near enough). We don’t want GW coming down on us. Please check the forum rules here to clarify.
tvandyke:
How exactly are they not overcomped?I really don't think those restrictions are all that restrictive honesty.
2 out of 4 lores are restricted to four dice casting. We are the only race that have its own lore limited to 4 dice.
Also, Death has been ETC FAQed to ignore modifiers, so Doom & Darkness & Spirit Leech don't combine.
Chalice is ETC FAQed to work before or after a spell, yet still can't be taken with a Prophet
Bale Taurus, or even a Lammassu with Breath weapon count as a warmachine
Iron Daemon counts as a warmachine, even if it takes the Skullcracker upgrade & doesn't shoot
K'Daai counts as 2 warmachines
You can take a max of 3 'warmachines' with Strength 5 templates and only 1 can be a Hell Cannon
What Draft 3 does is force you into specific builds, because of the internal balance limitations of the Tamurkhan book on top of the restrictions.
Ex:
To take a Taur'ruk you have to buy a unit of Centaurs.
Taur'ruk cannot be General or BSB so you need to spend points on them as well.
You are limited what to take in Special & Rare (Fireborn / Giant are over costed for what they do)
Hobgoblin Wolf riders need baby-sitting due to Animosity
KramDratta
gIL^:
Where can i find the ETC comp?
KramDratta:
Where can i find the ETC comp?There are some generic restrictions, which can be read here: Link
gIL^
Chaos Dwarfs (2400pts)
�?� Chalice or Sorcerer Prophet. Chalice of darkness counts as 2 PD.
�?� Iron daemon count as a war machines, K'daii destroyer count as 2 war machines.
�?� Magma Cannon/Hellcannon 0-1/Dreadquake Mortar, max 3 in total
gIL^:
Haha just take 4 iron daemons, Deploy them ahead your blocks of IG chug chug shoot shoot stop shoot shoot. And watch them cry.Where can i find the ETC comp?There are some generic restrictions, which can be read here: Link
gIL^
Chaos Dwarf specific restrictions:Chaos Dwarfs (2400pts)
�?� Chalice or Sorcerer Prophet. Chalice of darkness counts as 2 PD.
�?� Iron daemon count as a war machines, K'daii destroyer count as 2 war machines.
�?� Magma Cannon/Hellcannon 0-1/Dreadquake Mortar, max 3 in total
KramDratta