dedwrekka:
Two pronged question here. I’m looking for any available dates on two events in Warhammer:
1) Grimgor leaves the Blasted Wastes, or any dates for his early conquests.
2) Black Orc led slave rebellion among the Chaos Dwarfs.
I guess you can get where I’m trying to go with this one.
Kiwichris:
There were multiple rebellions but the biggest and last one was -100 (Imperial Calendar); page 8 of WDP:CD’s.
“No one knows the early history of Grimgor Ironhide. All that is known is that he staggered out of the Blasted Wastes with a grizzled, bloody and much-scarred bodyguard.” Page 12 of the current O&G book.
Piccolo:
black orc rebelion: -100
mention of grimgor: 2257 (Storm of Chaos)
BilboBaggins:
Must have been a long migration into the lands of the Empire. 100 years of Greenskins running amok, in the land of he future Empire, would have the humans looking for a Saviour.
Border Reiver:
Sorta like the 40 years that Moses and the gang were wandering in the desert trying to get from Egypt to the Promised Land?
BilboBaggins:
Possibly, but I was thinking more in line with the 100 year war.
Willmark:
My guess is that the Black Orcs rebelled multiple times. As to the exact date of the rebellion that caused the hobgoblins to turn the tide in the favor of the Dawi Zharr its a toss up.
Year -100 IC is as good a guess as any.
Thommy H:
[[Chaos Dwarf Timeline]].
The rebellion that led to the Black Orcs being kicked out of the Plain of Zharr and the Hobgoblins becoming favoured slaves happened 100 years before the founding of The Empire. Since that time, the Chaos Dwarfs haven’t used Black Orcs as slaves - they allowed a few tribes to remain wandering the Dark Lands so they could recruit them as mercenaries in the future, but that rebellion was the end of their enslavement. There were probably a few smaller rebellions before that.
So Grimgor (who emerged from the Dark Lands about 2,500 years later) probably wasn’t a slave of the Chaos Dwarfs, and he certainly wasn’t involved in a rebellion that happened millennia before.
BilboBaggins:
That was my thinking of Grimgor also. I feel that one of Grimgor’s ancesters that may have been among the leaders of the Black Orc Rebellions.
Does anyone know how long Orcs and Black Orcs live?
Willmark:
[[Chaos Dwarf Timeline]].Should have grabbed my 4th edition book before posting, indeed correct.
The rebellion that led to the Black Orcs being kicked out of the Plain of Zharr and the Hobgoblins becoming favoured slaves happened 100 years before the founding of The Empire. Since that time, the Chaos Dwarfs haven't used Black Orcs as slaves - they allowed a few tribes to remain wandering the Dark Lands so they could recruit them as mercenaries in the future, but that rebellion was the end of their enslavement. There were probably a few smaller rebellions before that.
So Grimgor (who emerged from the Dark Lands about 2,500 years later) probably wasn't a slave of the Chaos Dwarfs, and he certainly wasn't involved in a rebellion that happened millennia before.
Thommy H
dedwrekka:
So Grimgor (who emerged from the Dark Lands about 2,500 years later) probably wasn't a slave of the Chaos Dwarfs, and he certainly wasn't involved in a rebellion that happened millennia before.Just a bit there though. The first dated mention of Grimgor is the Storm of Chaos, which was a little under 2,500 years after the rebellion if it happened in -100, but Grimgor was roaming around long before that just by his known history. It's obvious now that he wasn't part of the larger rebellion.
Thommy H
Thommy H:
Probably not 2,500 years.
BilboBaggins:
Just curious, anyone know what the average lifespan for an orc or black orc would be?I thought I asked that a couple of posts ago?
dedwrekka
Thommy H:
Main characters seem to live longer. That’s a general rule in Warhammer, I find. I’m sure there’s stuff about Greenskin generals terrorising various places for several centuries, but I also seem to remember something about the average lifespan of a Greenskin being, like, 30 years or so (that might be 40K Orks though).
Either way, there’s no way Grimgor can have been involved. This is a guy who headbutted the Everchosen of Chaos - what was he doing for millennia? Just hanging around in the Blasted Wastes? All of Grimgor’s background suggests that he’s pretty much the toughest guy on the planet, so why did he only just emerge if he’s been around that long? He would have been the scourge of nations for all of recorded history if he was 2,500 years old.
dedwrekka:
Well, for starters, He took over scores of Orc tribes to get his numbers back up, he waged war against Kislev, he took over a Dwarf Hold, scoured out the skaven in the lowest tunnels, then took on a cycle of marching against the Empire or other empires during the spring and re-clearing the tunnels in the winter. Course that was after he exited the wastes.
Main characters seem to live longer. That's a general rule in Warhammer, I find. I'm sure there's stuff about Greenskin generals terrorising various places for several centuries, but I also seem to remember something about the average lifespan of a Greenskin being, like, 30 years or so (that might be 40K Orks though).
Either way, there's no way Grimgor can have been involved. This is a guy who headbutted the Everchosen of Chaos - what was he doing for millennia? Just hanging around in the Blasted Wastes? All of Grimgor's background suggests that he's pretty much the toughest guy on the planet, so why did he only just emerge if he's been around that long? He would have been the scourge of nations for all of recorded history if he was 2,500 years old.
Thommy H
All that is known is that Grimgor had staggered out of the Blasted Wastes with a grizzled, bloody and much scarred bodyguard. The few survivors were all tired and hungry, but they were also all Black Orcs and all armed to the teeth. They had clearly seen much combat, and some of the blood and wounds were fresh, but after that first time nobody dared ask.So he clearly was actually doing a fair bit of conquering before he stumbled out of the wastes. Though, the fact that there's only one army out of the area beyond that that was printed since Grimgor appeared, then it may be that his backstory has just yet to be told.
Baggronor:
What really got me asking the question in my mind, was that there hasn't really been a major black orc boss before Grimgor, which is somewhat odd considering that they tend to come to prominence wherever they are. There were plenty of mentionable orc bosses, some even rather big and tough, but Black Orcs and big Orcs aren't the same.Morglum Necksnapper, the 4th edition Black Orc warlord special character was pretty cool. :)
Thommy H:
Yeah, there’s been other Black Orc Warlords. I don’t think that because there’s only one special character in the current fluff it necessarily follows that there’s only been one ever for all of recorded history.
Border Reiver:
So if you were to recreate a orc and goblin army based on the Black Orc rebellion you could do it fairly easily using the O&G list:
Black orc war bosses and big bosses
Savage Orc war bosses and big bosses (slaves driven mad by their experiences
Orc war bosses and big bosses
No shamen (they’d likely have been killed by the CDs rather than enslaved)
Core Troops
No real need to limit any choices here, except to say no wolf riders or spider riders
Special Troops
Black orcs (as many as you can)
Bolt throwers
Rock Chukkas
No chariots or boar boyz
Rares
Likely no trolls (no mention of them in the fluff as living in the Plains of Zharr or the Zorn Uzkul), but the others are at least possible
I would also place the restriction that only the general could take magic items, and probably put a real cap on them. Just can’t see slaves having lots of kit - historical slave rebellions didn’t just stuff they bashed together.