[Archive] Bull Centaur 'Infantry'?

Hobgoblyn:

What you are describing here would not be ‘Bull Centaur’, since Centaur at least conveys having 4 legs even if you replace the ‘horse’ element with ‘bull’.

Minotaur is very close to what you are describing, of course, but that is the upper half of a bull and the lower half of a man. So that is the opposite…

Perhaps the best word for what you want here is ‘Bull Satyr’. But, as others have pointed out, this really steps a lot of the toes of what Beatmen already are. The Bull Centaurs are a ‘clever’ of making infantry Dwarf units without having to worry about hose those stubby legs would look sitting in the saddle of some animal. That’s the entire purpose of having Bull Centaur… The purpose of having a Bull Satyr is well… not so clear.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Not sure if it’s in THIS thread or another one, but it’s actually been changed to Bull Fawn/Bull Tauren/Bull Satyr as names to either replace or be alongside Bull Centaurs. Rather than making them a different version by the same name. The purpose is that they show the less-developed mutations. There is a piece of fluff that describes Dawi Zharr with hooves and horns (but not lower ha;ves that are reminiscent of Bulls) and this coincides with that image. IMO, it retains the feel of the Dawi Zharr, perhaps even better than the current BCs do.

Xander:

Maybe I will convert up a hero who matches this description, as a test mini. That would be fun.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Should be cool. Let us see the results. (May create a blunderbusser from the image. Only have DZ BBs and have some unused beastmen…)

Hobgoblyn:

This brings up another very important point…

Does anyone really want to go about chopping up Beastmen legs and heads to stick on Dwarfs and create an entire unit of these guys?

Would it really be worth the effort to you? Because if there is 0 interest in converting past 1-2 models, it doesn’t seem like they are good for much past a concept.

Grimstonefire:

6th ed dwarf arms with converted chaos helmets would be farily easy for the top. Or chaos warriors for the cloaks.

The beastmen legs I’m guessing would be a bit tricky, but not impossible.

As I happen to have all these parts looks like I’ve also volunteered myself for a concept model… doh

Xander:

Although I don’t have the models here with me, I have been looking for a good way to reuse my old 5th edition plastic beastman. I also could use my Battlemasters beastman as well.

Hobgoblyn:

Another thing I just realized is that the name “Bull Tauren” would be redundant.

“Tauros” means bull. So you’d be a Bull Bull.

The tricky thing here is that Ken Taurous (Centaur) means “Piercing Bull” so even the name “Bull Centaur” is meaningless. A Bull Piercing-Bull.

I suppose the image of Centaur as a horse-person is so ingrained in our memory that no one examined the root of the word and realized how silly the name is. But, Tauren is the name of something in WarCraft, so it’d be best to stay away from the word…

Faun or Satyr would work, take your pick…

As for abilities, what would they do? +1M, +1S perhaps?

Perhaps we could incorporate this with the idea of the elite infantry while the Immortals are the Elite-Elite. Perhaps these ones could be guardians like the Bull Centaur. Are Bull Centaur born as Bull Centaur or do they earn their way up?

Xander:

According to official fluff, Bull Centaurs were Chaos Dwarfs warped by the powers of chaos a long time ago. It is not clear if any more come into existence with the passing of time or not.

Fauns and Satyrs are directly associated with Goats, not Bulls. It would be even more of a misnomer to call them thus. Regardless of the origin of the word Centaur, the term is now used to represent a hybrid creature with four beastly legs and the torso of man (or Gor, or Dwarf, or essentially any primate that normally would walk erect).

The Greek word kentauros could be etymologized as ken - tauros = “piercing bull”. Another possible etymology can be “bulls slayer”.

Wikipedia
So even in Warhammer the use of “centigor” would mean “piercing gor.” Which doesn’t make much sense either. Following warhammer logic the name would be Centidwarf, or Centidawi… or even Centidawizharr. Centizharr?

I still like Bull Tauren. Possibly Dawitauren? How would such a word be pronouced?

EDIT: Now that I think of it Oxen is a pretty cool word too…

Hobgoblyn:

Fauns and Satyrs are directly associated with Goats, not Bulls. It would be even more of a misnomer to call them thus.
.....
I still like Bull Tauren. Possibly Dawitauren? How would such a word be pronouced?

Xander
Okay. Obviously you didn't quite get what I was trying to say, so let me try again...

Taurus means Bull. By saying 'Tauren' you are already implying bull. You are in no way even implying something humanoid that walks on two legs unless you were to force that from the 'en' part. So by saying "Bull Tauren" you are merely saying "Bull" twice in two different languages. "Bull Bull". This is something that would be ABUNDANTLY clear if you lived outside of a pure Germanic language background. If you were to translate "Bull Tauren" into Spanish for instance your creature would be called a "Tauro Tauren".

The reason why Faun and Satyr would work better is because no part of those words actually SAYS goat. They are, yes, normally associated with goats.
This is why by putting the modifier 'Bull' before it you are indicating that the creature you are utilizing for this mutation is not a goat, but in fact a bull. Therefore, using 'Bull' as an adjective makes sense unlike the previous example.

Dawitauren, however, would be a perfectly acceptible alternative.

Xander:

While you argue direct translation, I argue meaning. What does centaur mean? You would not translate Centaur into Piercing Bull in some other language… because the meaning is lost.

Meaning is everything, origin of words is something else entirely. Regardless of the origin of Centaur, it’s meaning implies a person whose lower half is that of a horse. And by association with this meaning, Bull Centaur means a Centaur with a bull body, in place of a horse. Not by the origin of the word, but by the meaning. Bull Tauren can still be valid. Besides, in many other languages repeating a word twice is not only exceptable, but can even form a new word.

Hobgoblyn:

Yes, your example with the Centaur is why I said a Faun or Satyr would work.

But the word “Tauren” in no way, shape or form implies anything but a bull. Do you see?

Because of WarCraft you can say it could mean a humanoid bull.

But then what are you left with? A humanoid bull that is a bull instead of a bull? That’s what your comparison to a Centaur would lead to. Where were you going with that, I don’t quite understand?

You see, at no point in your construction of this word have you indicated that their lower half is that of the rear of an animal and their upper half is human (or in this case Dwarven). The word “Satyr” and “Faun” do indicate this in the same way that Centaur indicates the lower half being everything of an animal except for the head.

Let me put up some similar constructs to what you are insisting on here. “Tiger Rakasha”, “Dragon Draconinian”, “Fox Kitsune”, “Turtle Kappa”, “Wolf Lupine”, “Lizard Saurian”, “Rat Skaven”, “Bear Furbolg”… I could go on, but do reading any of these (especially “Lizard Saurian”) conjur up in your mind the image of a human, dwarf, halfling or whatever with the lower half of the animal indicated? If not, why not?

Xander:

You see, at no point in your construction of this word have you indicated that their lower half is that of the rear of an animal and their upper half is human...

Hobgoblyn
My whole point is that the origin of words do not define their meaning. I can call my friend a pinhead, but that doesn't mean he has a head made out of a pin.

Aside from that, have you never heard the term "manly man"?

Lord Zarkov:

“Manly Man” refers to a man with very masculine qualities (as opposed to one with feminine qualities or one with fairly balanced qualities)

“Bull Tauren” implies a Bullish Bull unless there is another seperatly established description for common-or-garden Tauren

This could either not make much sense as the common assumption is that Bulls are Bullish or it could refer to an ‘alpha male type’ Tauren, this requiring a definition of 'tauren’

Satyr and Fawn IMO don’t fit thematically as they have been too attached IMO to ‘romantic’ fantasy in recent times to really fit in with CDs, whatever the original motives of the creatures (which do fit in fairly well with CDs if made Bullish)

Bull fawn would however perfectly describe the apperance of what has been described, if not the temperment as the ‘Bull’ prefix overides the usual goat attachments in the same way as it does for BC

cornixt:

Why not just call them Tauren and be done with it? It implies bullness without saying much more, leaving the rest to be explained in the physical description. Or try something completely new and made up, with no “taur…” in it at all.

Grimstonefire:

Tauros Guard?

Xander:

Tauros Guard is cool. Oxen Guard?

Hobgoblyn:

I could see Tauros Guard working out fine.

Revlid:

What is it, precisely, that they guard?

cornixt:

That there temple of Hashut