[Archive] CD Army Book 2009?

wallacer:

Has anyone heard anything more about the rumours of a CD army book in 2009? (i’ve been out of the internet loop for a while)

Xander:

Some people seem to think a CD book is coming in 2009 or 2010. I am not sure where the rumours started, so I can’t speak to their legitimacy.

Grimstonefire:

As Xander said there are rumours, quite a lot of them supporting late 2009.��HOWEVER, this is nowhere near confirmed (hence it not being in the Rumour Control thread).

@Xander

I believe the rumours were started by people on warseer. If I remember right they were supported by those who have an idea about very roughly when/ what order books will be out for years to come.��But orders and dates change, so what was true then might have moved forwards or backwards since.

Those ‘in the know’ seem very sure Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs is coming out this edition, but the way GW is going I’m just hoping they stay in business that long…

wallacer:

I'm just hoping they stay in business that long...

Grimstonefire
I doubt if GW will go out of business, although they may morph into something else. Maybe just a company that produces rules and supplements but more or less stop producing miniatures?

Anyway thanks for the info on the 2009 rumour. It was pretty much what I expected. As I probably won't have my CDs painted for at least another year, I guess I could live with 2009 :rolleyes:

Khaosbeardling:

As Xander said there are rumours, quite a lot of them supporting late 2009.��HOWEVER, this is nowhere near confirmed (hence it not being in the Rumour Control thread).

@Xander
I believe the rumours were started by people on warseer. If I remember right they were supported by those who have an idea about very roughly when/ what order books will be out for years to come.��But orders and dates change, so what was true then might have moved forwards or backwards since.

Those 'in the know' seem very sure Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs is coming out this edition, but the way GW is going I'm just hoping they stay in business that long...

Grimstonefire
I haven't noticed Gw being in any sort of trouble, what's all this talk about not staying in business that long, and such?

Xander:

He may be refering to dwindling sales. While revenues are ok (due to opening new stores), the average sales for each store have been heading south.

Hashut’s Blessing:

If they reduced their prices SLIGHTLY, then sales would increase again. It’s simple economics!

Monty:

^^ If only it were that simple!

To maximise profits they are going to have to outsource to China…

Anyways back on topic - wouldn’t count my chickens for a new book.

AGPO:

The sales and share price drops that have been noticed by those Economics students sad enough to read all the financial pages of the UK papers (ahem) are probablly due to dying interest in the LOTR game following the boom caused by the releae of the films. To be fair on them GW have re-invested this in opening new stores and improving their plastic moulding technology. However, the increased frequency of new “big releases” and the transformation of White Dwarf back into one big monthly sales pitch (it was all starting to look up when Sawyer and HAley were editing…) points to the notion that GW are trying to recreate this level and failing (as we only have so much money to spend on new armies of minis)

I do have to say though that GW are pricing many of us poor students who can neither work full time or rely on Christmas/Birthdays to pay for new stuff out of the market. Even with BfSP it is going to cost me a fair whack just to get a small army of CDs on the field. Its gonna be a struggle to have them up and running in time for the nemisis crown.

Hobgoblyn:

While more releases sounds good, I think it is important to remember that GW knows that big sales come NOT from making lots of fun, interesting models to fill out a dozen armies… But getting everyone to use the exact same models.

The biggest sales for GW is the Space Marines because you can use them to make 2 dozen “armies” each with their own special rules. The variance between the models for the armies is basically nothing, they all share the same core things. And, since they intentionally made the Space Marines an over-the-top powerful army that any beginner can pick up a couple boxes and begin winning easily with, they do sell quite well.

Of course, there is no big ‘everyone has one’ army for Fantasy, but then Fantasy also requires a LOT more models to make an official army (the individual troops are about the same, but 40K lets you eat up lots of points in big weapons which you can’t do in FB). And so they make up the cost of having to produce more types of models by getting the players to buy a lot more of those models.

Of course, again, if they can just produce one expensive model and everyone buys it they make more money than making a dozen models and having the same number bought. So, for Fantasy Battle their strategy was/is to make models that basically all armies can use and they hope that everyone wants at least one. Dogs of War, the Giant, even their last army release, Ogre Kingdoms, is almost all usable as DoW! They created some new interesting stuff for Storm of Chaos though which isn’t so univerally usable.

So truly there is no good reason for GW to invest in making a Chaos Dwarf army. There just isn’t. Because anyone who is a fan of Chaos Dwarves (or Hobgoblins) can easily be sold onto another army fairly easily or they will buy the same models as everyone else and go through lots of trouble converting them, ultimately paying more than a normal player and without having to buy new molds for the armies.

When you consider that CD are THE army that was cut before, the one whose sales figures were so low that they just didn’t seem worth the trouble to continue, it is pretty clear that there just isn’t enough reason to bring them back. If they were going to release a new army it would have to be something they’d suspect would have pretty wide-spread global appeal. I would expect it is more likely then that they would release a Chinese/Japanese/Mongollian style human army above any other choices (even if they said they weren’t going to do another human army). The only other things that seem to have vast popularity that GW isn’t already capitalizing on might be another beastmen army (Dog, Cat, Bird, Hyena, etc people).

The designers may very well prefer to do a Chaos Dwarf army over some of these more marketable choices, but they do have to listen to the people at the top who are concentrated purely on profit. The days of experimentation with various fun concepts seem to have passed.

Of course, all this aside, making a Chaos Dwarf army book is a losing venture for another reason. Well, certainly I don’t see why they can’t go and update their Ravening Hordes list, put a few more ‘experimental, non-tournament’ units for it in White Dwarf or whatever. But they HAVE to keep everything rather generic. Why?..

Well, look over these boards. You’ll see that everyone seems to have their own ideas about what a Chaos Dwarf (and Hobgoblin) should and should not be. Some of these ideas are pretty well opposed to one another and the only reason it totally isn’t polarizing us beyond even being able to have a semi-functional community is that, since there is nothing official, anyone making anything at all is kind of nice so we want to support it. However, if Games Workshop suddenly released a book deciding that there were no more big hats, that the Chaos Dwarves were fully integrated into Chaos now (such as in the Hell Cannon), that the Hobgoblins are pretty much totally independant now and all follow the Mongollian flavor (such as the models currently being produced), there are a lot of people here who would throw a huge fit and quit right away. So even if we were to say that we can prove there are numerous people interested in Chaos Dwarves, the truth is that a lot of people would be really, REALLY unhappy about the most likely direction of this book and wouldn’t buy it or any of the accompanying models anyway.

So… I really don’t see a book coming out for them. Not this summer, not 2009, not ever.

Well… at least an official GW tournament-approved book.

In fact, considering everything the question shouldn’t be ‘when is a CD book coming’ but ‘which army is going to be killed off next as GW consolidates’.

Monty:

@ Hobgoblyn.

That was a great post. I agree with everything said, more or less.

Cheers, Mont

Xander:

I am just glad we even have a list! RH does fine for me.

Chaos Dwarfs are like “The Veteran Gamer’s Army.” Same with DOW or Cathay, or any other unexplored region. They provide creative outlets for gamers to expand upon the known. That’s why I was really pissed when that White Dwarf article about Golden Daemon painting came out blasting GD entries that were based on Cathay, calling them nothing but Chinese models. To me, the unknown and the unexplored provide great sources of wonder and mystery to gamers which facilitates creative hobby work. This sort of thing should be encouraged by GW, not scorned, as whatshisname Jack Ass seems to think they should be.

I’m having a blast converting my army, and so long as we have official rules, I have nothing to complain too much about. Of course, I’d never be opposed to some new models or rules. :wink:

gORCUS:

As I have been thinking of a chaos dwarf army, the thing that really cemented the choice was the fact that I have three armies in one. First there is the great RH list which aside from a few update issues that should be addressed, is pretty cool (if maybe a wee bit overpowered). Next I can make an OnG army with all the slaves, which is what I was going to start next anyway. And then there is just running it as a dawi zharr themed dwarf army, which allows you to model more chaos dwarves counts as units, like hammerers as immortals or something.

The imagery is there and I think that there is alot of GW support for them to make some sort of comeback, as they have been mentioned in several newer army books. If anything I think they’ll more than likely come back as an addition to the hordes of chaos, but thats just speculation.

AGPO:

Nice post hobgoblyn, but hte point I was getting at is that veteran gamers adding to their exsting armies is’nt what makes the vast majority of GWs profit, its the young kids who come in, start a new army every few weeks before starting the next one and bug their parents and other reles into buying them vast boxed armies they never finish. Every time there’s a new army, its accompanied by a vast plug in WD and sure enough, people rush out and buy it.

Also, remember that until their latest book, both Bretonians and Wood elves (especially the latter) were looking to go the same way as the CDs. With a shiny new army book and models range however, along with a slight reworking of the background to make them less “Disney” they suddenly both became very popular armies, with the wood elves IMO being GWs best models ever (they were my first proper army though, so I’m biased).

In the end, I think if chaos dwarfs do get a new list, it will be either as allies for Greenskins, Ogres and Chaos (allowing us to field our slaves) or as an addition to a Chaos Army,followed by an unofficial White Dwarf list (like the Gnoblars). I don’t want to spoil people’s enthusiasm, but don’t forget there have been references to all sorts of places in the warhammer world over the years (Cathay springs to mind) and none of them et ave an army book. On the other hand, GW are fast running out of options for new releases for existing races, and it would be far quicker to re-activate an existing race they already had background for then start from scratch.

If they weren’t going to do anything then they’d just let CDs die out and never be mentioned again as they did with the Squats and co. (I spoke to Andy Chambers before he left GW and he told me this was their policy on anything they want to die out, such as the older, non-pc names for the eastern and southern reaches of the warhammer world)

oboudd:

i think thell make a new army book for version 8

Uzkul Werit:

8th Edition would be until the next decade, mate! We can afford to be a little more optimistic than that!

wallacer:

My optimism is based mostly on where I see the market is at now.

Both Confrontation and Warmachine/Hordes are eating (or at least nibbling) into GW’s profit.

I note with interest that the recent Empire book had more of a techological feel to it with (shudder) clockwork horses and so forth.

I think it would be slightly uncharitable to say that GW are unaware that there is a market for steampunky type armies, and i’m sure they’re aware that Confrontation and Warmachine/Hordes are tapping into that market. My hope is that they will try to grab some of that market for themselves (as it seems to me they leant towards in the recent Empire book), and I am hoping that with the obvious technological leanings of the Chaos Dwarfs that this may be a compelling argument in their favour if GW ever decide to reevaluate their market appeal.

AGPO:

I think it would be more difficult for any other company to eat into the mighty GWs profits, seeing as they dominate the main market area (ie the stores in every major city and town selling exculsively their own products) whereas other companies have to rely on small independant retailers who stock many different companies products, as well as the internet. Even so, I think GW will have to expand into new races soon, as I can’t see established players jumping at many more releases for existing armies, as most things are now affordable plastic anyway, and the models have reached a standard where the new range isn’t so special anymore. In the past (I’m thinking of the move from 5th to 6th edition) you got exited when the new army book came out, as it meant you finally got a few plastics units, had a glossy book full of background instead of a tatered copy of ravening hordes. The models were a whole world away from the ancient releases of 4th and 5th edition, which with some exceptions (and some of the models of this era still look amazing) were decidedly dated or ‘monoposed.’ A new army would inject fresh life into the range, and with CD you wouldn’t even need to expand much of the background, not to mention the plausibility factor. (“What is this small Cathayan army doing in the Empire? Surely you can’t have travelled this far just for a skirmish?”

marine281:

I talked too a GW manager in Westminster California, he is in charge of the West Coast main store. He told me that GW is closing down stores only tempoarily. It’s a marketing gag, if bluntly said, they re-open them when demand is great.

And the other slump is when the LOTR fandom died down and the games bubble burst. However, like all good, strong companies it is bound to have good and bad periods. Think back to 2 years ago, they were doing great, now they hit a small bump. GW is going to do fine.

Grimstonefire:

Despite my disbelief, there still keeps being rumours cropping up that they were intended for release in first quarter 2008…? This of course being slowly pushed back by projects inbetween (warhammer buildings/ mighty empires etc).

The rumours coming from people on warseer who are ‘apparantly’ well informed, generally those who seem to have given reliable information in the past.

So make from that what you will, IMO they’ll still be 2009. I think we would know by know if it was going to be in the latter half of 2008.