[Archive] Chalice of blood and darkness

Karring:

Could you use the Chalice to reduce energy dice of the enemy when you run out of dispell dices?

I assume yes, now you can use the Chalice at any time of the Magic phase but… I am not sure…

Thanks, guys.

rpitts2004:

Sounds good to me. Now do you have to use the chalice if you don’t need to?

Karring:

Now do you have to use the chalice if you don't need to?

rpitts2004
I do not see why: as far as I know, you still can use the Chalice only if you wish.

If it works as I think, the Chalice becomes an interesting alternative to dispell scroll.

Da Crusha:

Q. Can I use the Chalice of Blood and Darkness�?Ts ability at any point in the Magic phase? A. Yes �?" at any point in the Magic phase of either player�?Ts turn.

tamurkhan FAQ
so there you have it. the chalice can be used after you run out of dispel dice. also, no where is it indicated you have to use it every turn.

eudaimon:

Not only can you do this, but you can also do this:

Suppose you have 4 dice left to your opponents 4 dice.

You cast Ashstorm. He has been saving his dice to dispel it. Before he dispels, you use the Chalice, now he only has 1 dice left to dispel.

Praise be to Hashut and shoddy FAQ writers!

Da Crusha:

Not only can you do this, but you can also do this:

Suppose you have 4 dice left to your opponents 4 dice.

You cast Ashstorm.  He has been saving his dice to dispel it.  Before he dispels, you use the Chalice, now he only has 1 dice left to dispel.

Praise be to Hashut and shoddy FAQ writers!

eudaimon
ugh, zero sportsmanship score and fight ensues in parking lot.

Hashut’s Blessing:

But entirely fine by the FAQ’s standards.

Animatone:

Yep, a brawl would totally break out after that chain of events, but it would be a little funny in a “hey I’m a big $#!?” kind of way.

The chalice is quite nasty after the recent FAQ, but I’m still puzzled by the whole Blazing Body change. Still scratching my head on why that shook out the way it did.

But yeah you totally could do that!

The better question is though… Should you do that? Now that I would say would be as bad if not worse then the unkillable Dreadlord.

thrawn:

i would argue it can’t be used in that way, although it does not specify that it can’t be used in this way, it seems to contradict everything everything that warhammer stands for, so . . . try not to use it that way, us other chaos dwarf players will have to face the consequnces.

tvandyke:

i would argue it can't be used in that way, although it does not specify that it can't be used in this way, it seems to contradict everything everything that warhammer stands for, so . . . try not to use it that way, us other chaos dwarf players will have to face the consequnces.

thrawn
Using it before a cast is one thing but using it in the middle of a cast, hmmm, that's pushing it. I used it at my last tournament a couple of weeks ago and I hardly ever used it in my offensive phase. I pretty much just used it during my defensive phase. It came in handy when my opponent had 9 or more dice and I was stuck with 6 or less. More often than not, I'd use my dice up and he'd have 3 or 4 dice left, I'd have none. I'd use the chalice and get him down to 1 or 2 dice. That usually meant he couldn't get off anything nasty. It was definitely worth the 50 points. If you could use it in mid cast it would almost have to be a "one use" only item or cost at least 100 points. It's already a bargain without using it that way.

brotsorrow:

Q. Can I use the Chalice of Blood and Darkness�?Ts ability at any point in the Magic phase?

A. Yes �?" at any point in the Magic phase of either player�?Ts turn.

Since FW are very specific with the “any point…” I do not see the problem with using the Chalice after casting and before opponent dispels… Harsh? yes, but these are chaos dwarves not my little ponies :slight_smile:

eudaimon:

Could and should are two different arguments…

IzNoGood:

True, but plenty of other armies have brutal combos that they happily use without even blinking. I tend to agree with brotsorrow, though havn’t yet used it like that, guess it depends on your opponent too. There may be more uncertainty in being able to use the chalice if you have no dispel dice left to consume.

Discoking:

There may be more uncertainty in being able to use the chalice if you have no dispel dice left to consume.

IzNoGood
I don't think there's any uncertainty...

It's like a unit of Squig Herders, and not taking any squigs.
So you have a 30pt unit of 10 Immune to Psychology Goblins for speed bumps;
That explode when beaten in combat, even though there are no Squigs.

It's an odd way of comparison, but there you have it.
It's on the table.

fairoaks024:

this is no different from the scenario where it’s your magic phase, your opponent is hanging onto dispel dice to dispel one of your remains-in-play spells and you announce that magic is over before he gets to use them.

as written it’s technically correct, but i would stop playing against someone who actually did that to me.

regards

jim

Ender SpiteSworn:

Thats not a"Brutal combo" its just bad sportsmanship and taking advatange of a slightly poorly worded faq. Everyone expects GW and forgeworld to write rules like lawyers. Its akin to ending your own vortex in the middle of moving it right before it hits your troops. I think its pretty clear they did not intend that. Once you roll the dice for a spell, the rules a intend that the next step is for your oppoenent to attempt to dispel it, not for you to pause and use some more magic items.

IzNoGood:

OK to counter your argument that its bad sportsmanship and that you think its pretty clear they did not intend it, supposing that’s exactly what they intended. How else would they have written it?

Baggronor:

Not only can you do this, but you can also do this:

Suppose you have 4 dice left to your opponents 4 dice.

You cast Ashstorm. He has been saving his dice to dispel it. Before he dispels, you use the Chalice, now he only has 1 dice left to dispel.

Praise be to Hashut and shoddy FAQ writers!
Seriously? :sick Do we need that kind of reputation as a semi-legal army?

zhatan87:

To me, you can do it. Just because there are others items that can be played like it : sacrificial dagger, power stone, …
Though it is explicitly written that you can do that, the “at any point” covers this case…

Here, it’s an item already forbidden in many tournaments…

tvandyke:

OK to counter your argument that its bad sportsmanship and that you think its pretty clear they did not intend it, supposing that's exactly what they intended. How else would they have written it?

IzNoGood
Well, I've been playing this game since 3rd edition, I guess around 20 years. I think I have a pretty good feel for what's good and what's crap for the points cost. Prior to the FAQ clarification I had no desire to use the Chalice at all. I just didn't see spending 50 points for something that could hurt me worse than my opponent in any given magic phase. Of course, I was under the assumption you had to use it prior to any spells being cast. With the FAQ clarification stating you could use it anytime during the magic phase it all of a sudden became a very powerful item for 50 points and this was without any thought of using it mid-cast. In fact, using it mid-cast didn't even enter my mind simply because the game mechanics have never allowed something like that in my 20 years of playing Warhammer. If it was intended to be used like that then it was undercosted by at least 50 points or should have been one use only. Just compare it to other items costed at 50 points and tell me something that is that powerful. If that's how it's intended to be played then I predict it will be a mute point because it will probably be a banned item at every tournament I'll ever attend.