Grimstonefire:
So, with the interesting rumours I heard about FW doing Imperial Armour style books for warhammer, what do you all think about this?
One of my friends bought IA: Siege of Vraks (part 2), and has lent it to me. I must admit, this is the first time I have actually spent time looking through a FW book, and I am seriously impressed.
I’ll talk though some of the highlights for me, some of this may be interesting for people who have not flicked through one yet.
The first thing that struck me is that there is some incredible artwork in there. Fair enough it’s not detailed pictures of cities under attack, or inspirational alternate versions of heroes etc (as you get in WH books, that would make good conversions).
What you do get though are:
Detailed full colour paintings of key things
Smaller black and white versions of the same things
Dozens and dozens of photoshopped images of miniatures in warzones (which I find really cool, they are very well done)
Alternate paint schemes (illustrations, not models)
Detailed paintings of weapons
Line drawings of vehicles
Regular paintings of things included in the book, like a unit of guardsmen walking across a battlefield).
The next thing is the ongoing story. I haven’t had a chance to read this fully yet, but it is very well written from the what I can tell.
The other thing I really like are the small text bits they have under things, saying for instance ‘dreadnought X… snippet of back story … final moments’ etc. So really great stuff for people who want to do theming.
They also spend a fair amount of time describing the back story to each and every thing generally, instead of the few paragraphs we get from GW studio.
I know next to nothing about 40k rules (so I cannot comment on balancing), but aside from the actual rules section they have an appendix with diagrams, and a slightly longer winded approach to describing specific rules (basically writing as much as is needed, unlike GW cramming things in just to save space). They also acknowledge the people who send in emails about their experimental rules (something for us to consider as a forum).
Finally, they have 17 scenarios, with back stories, maps (obviously), and break downs of all the forces that took part.
So, overall, what do I think of FW bringing in the Chaos Dwarfs this way??
I really like inspirational artwork, and whilst photoshopping models into warzones is cool, it doesn’t show lots of variety. That would be a shame, however what they do show they do in much greater depth than GW studio ever do.
I presume the format would not be that different to 40k, they would say ‘you’ll need Warhammer Armies: X and Y, and a copy of the rulebook’, with the CD part completely within the book. So having a really long campaign book with the CD taking part would be interesting, but only if they allocated a fair bit of time to other aspects of the CD that are not important in a battle.
For example; their attitude to hashut, how their society works, how their armies as a whole fight (presuming they don’t get a whole book by themselves).
The rules format done into warhammer style I think would be fine.
Overall I would say that FW could do a very good job of phasing in the CD.
Your thoughts?
Thommy H:
I think it would be a more promising format than an actual Armies book, if only because Forgeworld have less of an audience to cater to - in other words, they don’t have the pressure of a “duty”, if you like, to provide perfectly balanced rules. Now, I don’t think the main GW studio really have that duty either, but people expect that of them and dissect everything they do on that basis. So if they introduce something potentially controversial (High Elves with ASF, deep striking Land Raiders, etc.) it’s seen as modifying the meta-game and being a permanent, possibly detrimental, change to the game systems as a whole. With Forgeworld, they’re free to just say, “this is some stuff we thought would be pretty cool - use it if you opponent lets you”. That’s how all rules should be, I think. Forgeworld also, as you allude to, modify their rules later as things change and it never feels like anything is set in stone. So I think it would be a pretty good way to introduce a new faction that might be a step too far for the modern Warhammer. I can’t speak about the physical product either, but it seems no less complete than an Armies book or Codex and, in many ways, more free and open, for the same reasons cited above.
Grimstonefire:
I agree Thommy, I like the way they produce books. As you say, it’s more just take the rules as they are and have fun.
The fact that they are actually open to suggestions, and engage with their potential customers bodes well for us. For instance, presuming they phase the Chaos Dwarfs through relatively slowly it means we can provide them with a whole load of ideas and playtest info along the way, potentially changing the final list as a result. As opposed to with GW studio, who would push the book out and say ‘that’s it for 6 years guys’.
Baggronor:
The fact that they are actually open to suggestions, and engage with their potential customers bodes well for us.
The opportunity for potential input on FW CDs from CDO would be pure, undiluted awesome.
wallacer:
I like the FW books as well. I think this would be a better way to introduce them simply because it gets around having to slot CD into GW’s silly release schedule.
Henroth:
Since I hope that these rumors are fulfilled once and for all. 
Firehammer:
I play 40k and own two IA books for a long time (IA3 and IA4, Tau and Tyranids). They are very fine products, actually IA3 managed to get me into 40k again. Of course having Fantasy IA books would be a dream come true.
That said, there are three things to consider:
1.) I interpret your rumours so that there won’t be a Chaos Dwarf IA in the near future, not even a complete CD army, but only CD mercenaries with artillery in a Chaos army. So a few units, hell gun like maybe, but the main topic will be Chaos. Better this than nothing, but don’t expect the wrong thing like a new Hashut cult book.
2.) The FW guys are 40k fanatics and only interested in 40k. They are good at it, but that’s because they like it and the customers buy one Imperial tank after the other. We don’t know yet who will write Fantasy stuff and if he will be as good as the 40k writer. Might be Rick Priestley, then everything is good, might be someone else and we have to see.
3.) If I understand your conversation correctly, we shouldn’t expect such a book in this year. Nothing seems set in stone yet, it is just ideas they are playing with.
So there is a huge potential, but don’t hold your breath yet.
cornixt:
The thing that makes me apprehensive about this is that you’d come up against opponents who say “That’s forgeworld, it’s not official” and refuse to play. Are the IA books accepted at any tournaments?
Grimstonefire:
@Firehammer
1. Yes, I’m inclined to agree. We are stuck without a stand alone army book for at least 18months - 2 years imo.
2. Presuming Rick joins them as a writer, and not just as a manager or rules designer, I think as you say the CD would be safe in his hands. I’m not sure how good the other authors would be, I’ll have a look around and see if any of them have written anything for WH.
3. This I am not so sure about. Think of it this way; going by their recent history in 40k, FW have almost always released big groups things in the IA format of releases. This guy seemed to think that there would be something for sale this year. Sure, it’s a bit too early to tell yet, but if they are to release a few things this year I think they will release it in IA format. With any luck their first book would include something for us. Hopefully someone will think to ask them at GD France (2 weeks today).
@cornixt
It depends on the tournament. I doubt the FW lists would be playable in most of the larger ones. Having suffered years of unofficial complaints, I think them being in a current and valid book would have to be better than where we are now. 
Firehammer:
FW usually first releases some or even most miniatures/tanks before releasing the book, where everyone can see the planned releases with rules. No surprises and no fun then, just nerd rage that something is not yet available
They might do it differently in Fantasy, but I don’t think so. Giving away all secrets at the start doesn’t sound logical. I rather expect either test releases not associated with a book (some fancy dragon or monster they always wanted to make) or first fancy releases for the book.
The thing that makes me apprehensive about this is that you’d come up against opponents who say “That’s forgeworld, it’s not official” and refuse to play. Are the IA books accepted at any tournaments?
cornixt
We are talking about Chaos Dwarfs here, our official army book is from 1994
(Yes, some people let us play with Ravenging Hordes list or the IndyGT book, but there is always goodwill involved)
Thommy H:
Ravening Hordes was official. I mean, that’s neither here nor there in terms of what people will allow you to use, but it’s not fair to say that the last official rules for Chaos Dwarfs was the White Dwarf presents book. There was a time period when the two-page list in RH was completely, unquestionably valid.
Willmark:
Firehammer, in reality we have not really ever had s a book. WD presents Chaos Dwarfs was a compilation of White Dwarf articles and a few new bits added to make an “army book” in the loosest sense of the term.
cornixt:
Going from one list that many people consider to be “illegal” to another, not really that much progress even if we get a few more models.
