I’m not sure if this has been done already, so please add a link if it has but this thread is all about putting together ‘counts as’ armies for use in tournaments where CDs are not allowed.��If you have used your army as a ‘Count’s As’ army, or are putting one together, please tell us what your units ‘counted as’ here!
To get the ball rolling:
Hordes of Chaos[/u]
Lords
CD Lord = lord of chaos
Marks:
Undivided = Talisman of Gorgoth - May re-roll failed psychology tests
Khorne = Hammer of Malice - subject to frenzy, adds one dice to dispel pool
Nurgle = Armour of Ishkur al Salat - Hero causes fear, has + 1 wound
Slaanesh = Obsidian Helm - immune to psychology
Bull Centaur Lord
BC Lord = Lord of chaos + chaos steed.
Marks:
As CD Lord
CD Sorceror Lord (or High Priest!!) = Exalted Sorceror of Chaos or Lord of chaos with mark of Tzeench
Marks (Exalted Sorceror only)
Undivided = Talisman of Gorgoth - May re-roll failed psychology tests
Nurgle = Armour of Ishkur al Salat - Hero causes fear, has + 1 wound, can use nurgle spells (make more chaos dwarfy!)
Slaanesh = Obsidian Helm - immune to psychology, can use slaanesh spells (make more Chaos Dwarfy)
Lord + Mark of Tzeench= Lv 4 sorceror, can ride a Lammasu = Disc of Tzeench (ok, rubbish at fighting/walking but at least it can fly(float)
Heroes[/u]
All as above except hero with mark of tzeench is Lv 2 sorceror and can’t ride a Lammasu.
Core[/u]CD Warriors = Chaos warriors
Marks:
Khorne - Banner of zharr nagrund -frenzy, +1 dispel dice
Nurgle - horn of mourn - Cause Fear
Tzeench - Obsidian Gems - + 1 power dice
CD Immortals (0-1) = Chaos ‘chosen’ warriors + mark of slaanesh
(immune to psychology/chaos (dwarf)armour, + 1A)
Bull Centaurs = Chaos Knights
Marks:
Khorne - Banner of zharr nagrund -frenzy, +1 dispel dice
Nurgle - horn of mourn - Cause Fear
Tzeench - Obsidian Gems - + 1 power dice
Slaanesh - immune to psychology
(0-1) Chosen - +1A, 1+ Armour save
{EDIT} BCs could also count as Dragon Ogres with Great weapons from the Beasts of Chaos list as a rare choice.
Hobgoblins = Chaos Marauders
Hobgoblin Wolf Riders = Marauder Horsemen[/i]
Good Points[/u]
IMMORTALS!!!
Rock hard Bull Centaurs
Can make a really powerfull sorceror lord on lammasu
Use Marks of Chaos as fluffy CD magic items!
If your army points more towards Chaos than Hashut (like mine!), can fit in Chaos units/deamons quite easily (Trolls/Ogres/Giant/Beastmen anyone?{count as special/rare choices from the beasts of chaos rules})
Bad Points:[/u]
Rules for Marks of Chaos
Movement not dwarf like
No Orcs unless tournament allows allies/ DoW
No war machines or blunderbuss!
SUMMARY
Its going to be hard to make an accurate CD army using this list.��The main focus is on Warriors, Hobgoblins, Immortals and Bull Centaurs as the other unit entries in the army don’t represent well.��Also, If you want to have the Immortals as hard as their rules suggest, then the General will have to have the mark of Chaos undidvided or slaanesh, so if you want a Lammasu, you can’t have the immune to psychology immortals (they can still have the armour and attack, but the mark of tzeench just makes them add a power dice).��
OK, any comments please and suggestions for other counts as lists (dwarfs! O& G’s, Empire etc,etc.)
Dwarfs would be far more accurate. No spellcasters,flyers or Bull Centaur characters but everything else is doable. Some bloke from GW Canada did something similar. Hobgoblins would be done by either taking Kislev allies (lots of fast cav) or by hiring DOW. Ironbreakers would be spot on for Immortals.
- Shield Bearers could make an awesome conversion in themselves.��Very useful in gaming terms.
- Oathstone.��Could make for dynamic character conversions.
Sorcerer Lord (Runelord)
The sorcerer is nowhere near as useful in the Dwarf list (compared to chaos), but in a Dwarf ‘counts as’ list he would be very useful.
- Anvil.��You can’t really represent the Lammasu in gaming terms in a Dwarf themed list (without using DoW), But as shown by our showcase army, a stationary CD themed anvil can be a centrepiece of the army.��You could paint paint a Lammasu as stone, make a statue, or some sort of stationary mechanical monstrosity.
BC Lord (n/a)
There isn’t a suitable equivalent in this list.��The only possibility would be a BC rearing up on his hind legs on a 20mm x 20mm base, counted as a Daemon Slayer… :~��Not a great choice really.
EDIT: Could use a Daemon Slayer as a Berserker lord
HERO:
Chaos Dwarf Hero (Dwarf Thane)
Same as usual.
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer (Runesmith)
As with the Runelord, not a great equivalent, but still usefull.
Hobgoblin Hero (n/a)
There isn’t a suitable choice for him IMO.
BC Hero(n/a)
Unless you want to go down the Dragon slayer route, nothing useful here.
EDIT: Could use a Dragon Slayer as a Berserker Hero
Arcane Engineer [Master Engineer] - A chance for a cool addition here
CORE
Chaos Dwarf Warriors (Dwarf Warriors)
Note that you could even do Chaos Dwarf Ancients/ Longbeards
Blunderbussers (Thunderers)
Several choices here because of a Quarrellers or Rangers equivalent.
Hobgoblins
Nothing appropriate here really, you could use rangers as a Sneaky Git scouting unit perhaps?��Maybe Quarellers as ‘sniper Hobgoblins’? No Wolf rider equivalent.
SPECIAL:[/b]Immortals/ Black Orcs[/b] (Hammerers OR Ironbreakers)
A great reason to use the Dwarf list here.��Ironbreakers and Hammerers have the rules to make 2 exceptionally fluffy Chaos Dwarf units.
Orcs[/b] (Slayers)
Not a great comparison really, but as a ‘counts as’ unit I guess it could work.��Chaos Dwarf Berserkers would fit in perfectly.
Goblins[/b] (n/a)
Who uses goblins anyway.
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [/b](Dwarf Bolt Thrower)
Sneaky Gits[/b] (n/a)
Nothing immediately obvious here, but could use Rangers?
Death Rocket[/b] (Grudge Thrower, Cannon or Organ Gun)
Great chance here to adapt the design of the rockets so you can use all choices in different roles.
Combat Engineers [Miners] - A cool addition to a Chaos Dwarf Force
RARE[/b]Bull Centaurs[/b] (Slayers?)
Only option here I can think of (aside from DOW) are Slayers (using them as infantry modelled on their hind legs). Seriouly underused when not being used as cavalry and very hard to model well.
Earthshaker[/b] (Cannon, Grudge Thrower or Flame Cannon)
Three artillery choices here!
Lammasu - Gyrocopter?
SUMMARY:
On the plus side you have access to plenty of elite infanty to create themed units from.��The Dwarf list must be the best ‘counts as’ army for this.��Added to this, more artillery than you could ever need for CD equivalents!!!��The core choices are a lot more exciting too.��You also have appropriate profiles and movement for a Chaos Dwarf army.
On the negative side the Lammasu, Great Taurus, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Wolf Riders, Sneaky Gits and Bull Centaurs are all effectively out of the list.
So you lose out on some areas, but more than make up for them in others (IMO).��How well the Dwarfs would stand as a ‘counts as’ army would really depend on how passionate you were about the bits you would no longer be able to use.
I think someone should really do an Empire ‘counts as’ list here.��I don’t have access to the new book, but that could make an amazing army.��Mechanical Dragon/ uber Great Taurus anyone?
I think someone should really do an Empire 'counts as' list here.��I don't have access to the new book
Grimstonefire
I agree, Empire have such a mix of units, flagelents as slaves? they've got that rocket thingy (i wonder what we could use that for!!), Having BCs count as Knights of the white wolf of the inner circle, a fire wizard, the list goes on. Someone with the book please put a 'counts as' list up
Great work on the 'counts as' Dwarfs list BTW grim. :hat off
for the gyrocopter why not created a steampunk mechanical CD themed gyrocopter! man that would be so coool! In fact I may try that ! I agree that a dwarf count as CD seems the most accurate, it still has holes but what count as list dosen’t?
the biggest problem I see with the “Chaos” counts-as-list is the base size. All chaos models are based on the bigger 25mm bases, whereas (chaos) dwarves are on the smaller 20mm bases. Chosen warriors with Great Weapon and the small frontage of a dwarf unit would definetly rock, though…
And DoW have an entry for Dwarf Warriors, haven�t they? They are allowed to use cannons.
They have the matching Heavy infantry and various cavalry and artillery options. That could actually work quite well as Counts as List… Good idea, Uzkul!
Add mine to the chorus. Dwarfs make the best choice for a count as army. If for no other reason then base size. Because of this chaos is effectively eliminated unless you place them on 20 mm bases, and if chaos warrior infantry wasn’t difficult enough to rank up!
Add mine to the chorus. Dwarfs make the best choice for a count as army. If for no other reason then base size. Because of this chaos is effectively eliminated unless you place them on 20 mm bases, and if chaos warrior infantry wasn't difficult enough to rank up!
Willmark
Your probably right WM, but the point of this thread was for people who may not have access to the dwarf army book, but might have an empire one or HoC one lying around, so I wanted to try and gather as many different 'counts as' lists as possible! Which one is the best is just down to personal opinion!
We have a Dwarf 'CA list and a Chaos 'CA list, someone has mentioned empire but not posted a list so that to come hopefully. Lets see if we cant fit CDs into Skaven or High elves or something. once we have a few more we could come up with a diffinitive list incorporating all peoples comments and ideas.
dwarf warriors fill out the special, duelists and pikement to represent hobgoblins, heavy cavalry for bulls, light cav for hobgob wolfboys, and other stuff for rare.
The biggest problem in finding counts-as lists is the core troop with Toughness 4, I think. I don’t have too much of a problem with modelling Chaos Dwarfs on larger bases to count-as Chaos Warriors, but T3 Empire state troops don’t say “dwarf” to me, although the war machines might. I was thinking about orcs as a counts-as list, modelling orcs as CDs (again on larger bases) but then they lose the famous dwarf discipline, so I dunno about that option.
What about a counts-as LIZARDMEN list? Hmm actually that idea seems pretty good…
Slann as Sorcerer Lord on Palanquin
Saurus Lord as Chaos Dwarf Lord
Carnosaur as Bull Centaur Lord/Great Taurus
Skink sorcerers as Hobgoblin shamans/apprentice sorcerers
Saurus as Chaos Dwarf warriors (lose the WS, but get the second attack instead and keep the discipline with Cold-Blooded)
Skinks as Hobbos
Cold Ones as Bull Centaurs
Salamanders as mobile flame-thrower machines!
Stegadon as Kolossus
Pteradons (is that their name?) as gyrocoptery machines
Kroxigor as golems/robots/ogres/steampunk ogre cyborgs!
The biggest problem in finding counts-as lists is the core troop with Toughness 4, I think.��I don't have too much of a problem with modelling Chaos Dwarfs on larger bases to count-as Chaos Warriors, but T3 Empire state troops don't say "dwarf" to me, although the war machines might.��I was thinking about orcs as a counts-as list, modelling orcs as CDs (again on larger bases) but then they lose the famous dwarf discipline, so I dunno about that option.
What about a counts-as LIZARDMEN list?��Hmm actually that idea seems pretty good.....
Slann as Sorcerer Lord on Palanquin
Saurus Lord as Chaos Dwarf Lord
Carnosaur as Bull Centaur Lord/Great Taurus
Skink sorcerers as Hobgoblin shamans/apprentice sorcerers
Saurus as Chaos Dwarf warriors (lose the WS, but get the second attack instead and keep the discipline with Cold-Blooded)
Skinks as Hobbos
Cold Ones as Bull Centaurs
Salamanders as mobile flame-thrower machines!
Stegadon as Kolossus
Pteradons (is that their name?) as gyrocoptery machines
Kroxigor as golems/robots/ogres/steampunk ogre cyborgs!
Junge Swarms as......ash waste swarms?��Lava beetles?��hmmm...
How about that then?��I guess there would be no more blunderbuss, and no more deathrocket/earthshaker.....
Khan!
Cool! this is just the sort of thing we need! Basically what I'm aiming for is a definitive guide so that whatever army you play, you can convert a CD army and use the rules you've got!
Minty - DoW sounds good, don't have the book though. Could you post a list like Khan/Grim/myself
the biggest problem I see with the "Chaos" counts-as-list is the base size. All chaos models are based on the bigger 25mm bases, whereas (chaos) dwarves are on the smaller 20mm bases. Chosen warriors with Great Weapon and the small frontage of a dwarf unit would definetly rock, though...
I guess counts-as-dwarfs is the best solution.
Cotter
I agree. The main idea behind this is that CDs can be used in tournaments, and most tournaments insist on correct base size. Here is my own take on the Dwarf list, slightly diferent to Grim's:
Lords Dwarf Lord - Chaos Dwarf Lord
Runelord - Sorcerer Lord
Anvil of Doom - Stoned sorcerer lord
Daemon Slayer - Possesed Berzerker
Heroes Thane - CD Hero
Runesmith - Shadow or Death sorcerer
Engineer - Metal or Fire Sorcerer
Dragon Slayer - Berzerker "hero"
Core Dwarf Warriors - CD Warriors
Thunderers - Blunderbussiers
Quarrelers - CD Crossbows (3rd ed style)
Miners - Combat Engineers/Furnace Guard
Special Hammerers - General's Bodyguard
Ironbreakers - Immortals
Slayers - Berzerkers
Bolt Throwers - Bolt Throwers
Stone Thrower - Earthshaker
Cannon - Death Rocket
Rare Gyrocopter - Great Taurus (With beastmaster rider rather than lord to explain the crappy stats)
Organ Gun - Gatling Gun
Flame Cannon - Hellcannon
In addition to this DoW heavy Cavalry could be used for bull centaurs
but that could make an amazing army.��Mechanical Dragon/ uber Great Taurus anyone? 