[Archive] Daemon-forged items [Rules WIP]


I stumbled across lizardbrain’s thread for a Chaos Dwarf version of runic weapons http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7713 and between that and the link to Thommy H’s daemonolgy thread http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6731 it got me thinking about incorporating the concept into some homebrew rules for daemonsmiths and daemon-forged weapons.

So far, I have a rough idea of where I want to go with this, but the points value still need to be determined. Any feedback/criticism would be greatly appreciated.

Right now, I am using the RH list and this would be a house rule option that would replace the Hero level Sorcerers. My view of CD society is that Sorcerers are the undisputed rulers, and as such, they should only be Lord level characters with High Priests being Level 4 and all other priests being represented as Level 3 Sorcerers. Daemonsmiths are the most logical substitution for a Hero level magic user.

All Daemonsmiths are Level 1 Wizards but cannot cast spells on their own. They do add their Wizard level to Dispel attempts and can attempt to channel Dispel dice as a normal Wizard.

Daemon-forged items are split into groups based on the type of lesser daemon being bound into the items. For this, I purposefully tried to stay away from the daemons of the Chaos Gods and am focusing on daemons whose attributes and abilities would tie into some of the Lores of Magic that Chaos Dwarfs have been allowed to take. So there would be items created from binding Fire daemons, Shadow daemons, and Molten/Magma/Forge (metal) daemons (still trying to think of the best term to us for these) into them. I have ideas for daemons with abilities tied to the Lore of Death, but am thinking that perhaps that lore should remain the sole providence of Lord level Wizards. I see the use of Death magic akin to sacrifices to Hashut and that would be more appropriate for Priests than Daemonsmiths.

These groups would be further divided into daemon-forged Weapons, Armor, and Enchanted Items. Some of the ideas I have for the various items are inspired by existing magic items from lists, such as WoC. I’d like to come up with more original ideas, and I’m sure I will with some more thought on the topic.

Daemons of Flame

Weapon: Flaming Attacks and +1 Attack.

Armor: Successful attacks against the wearer must be re-rolled. Another thought was: Any successful wound against the wearer inflicts a S2 hit on the attacking model; no armor saves allowed. (I envision this as intense heat or bursts of flame striking back at the attacker.)

Enchanted Item: (Note: all daemon-forged Enchanted Items will work basically the same. The difference, obviously, will be in the Lore of Magic they grant access to.) The bearer gains Loremaster for the Lore of Fire. He is still a Level 1 Wizard and can now channel Power Dice and he adds his Wizard level to casting attempts.

Daemons of Shadow

Weapon: No armor saves. (The weapon would become insubstantial and would pass through armor.)

Armor: I have a couple possibilities here. One would be a Ward save that would represent the armor granting some insubtantiability to the wearer, making it where attacks would simply fail to hit them. Another thought would be to cause Fear or Terror stemming from manipulation of shadows around the wearer. I also entertained thoughts of allowing the wearer to bi Ethereal instead.

Enchanted Item: The bearer gains Loremaster for the Lore of Shadow. He is still a Level 1 Wizard and can now channel Power Dice and he adds his Wizard level to casting attempts.

Daemons of Metal (I will come up with a better term for these.)

Weapon: Potential to destroy opponent’s weapon and/or armor (similar to the Obsidian Blade in the RH list). I’m thinking it would destroy a normal weapon outright, rendering a special weapon like a Great Weapon useless and the model would have to resort to a hand weapon instead. Obviously this would only be useful against characters or multiple wound models. A magical weapon would be destroyed on a D^ result of 4+.

Armor: Magical weapons attacking the wearer would lose all magical effects granted to the weapon.

Enchanted Item: The bearer gains Loremaster for the Lore of Metal. He is still a Level 1 Wizard and can now channel Power Dice and he adds his Wizard level to casting attempts.

Well, that’s the basic premise of my idea. I’ll try making some concrete choices for each group in the near future. I am also trying to decide if a daemonsmith could mix-and-match items from different daemon groups or if they should only be allowed to specialize in a certain type of daemon. I’d appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Thommy H:

I like it. Very workable, and probably not too hard to balance effectively. I’d like to see some sort of drawback to using them though - like rolls of ‘1’ to hit causing a wound to the bearer or something for weapons.

Also, you should call the Daemons “Infernals”, “Umbrals” and “Alkahests”. Just a thought.


Also, you should call the Daemons "Infernals", "Umbrals" and "Alkahests". Just a thought.
I like those. I may use them (or a slight variation). Also toying with the thought of mutating the name of the corresponding Wind of Magic.

I do have some ideas for drawbacks to daemon-forged items. The first came about while contemplating the possibility of allowing a daemonsmith to have items from different groups of daemons. In my mind, the bound daemons would be jealous of their rivals and only the daemonsmith's force of will would control them. For example, a daemonsmith is kitted out with a Metal-bound weapon, Shadow-bound armor, and Fire-bound Enchanted Item. The first daemon-forged item he uses has his "favor." In this case, we'll say he casts a Fire spell in the first turn of the game, so it has his favor. He casts another spell in the next turn and since he is still using his favored item, there is no side effect. Now, his unit is charged and he is hit by an attack, activating his Shadow-bound armor. The Shadow daemon is a bit put off because the daemonsmith had been giving attention to a rival daemon-forged item. In order for the daemonsmith to benefit from the armor's ability, he'd have to pass a Ld test to force it to work. If he passes the test, the item functions and it now has his favor. Now when he goes to attack with his Metal-bound weapon, he'd have to pass another Ld test to coerce that daemon-forged item to work properly. I admit, this system would be very complicated to keep track of, but I like the way it feels fluff-wise. A daemonsmith could play it safe and use items from a single type of daemon or he could prove how much control he has over daemons by mix-and-matching them and bending them to his will. Perhaps making it where the daemonsmith simply states what type of daemon is favored at the beginning of the battle would work better. For example, he states the Fire Enchanted Item is favored. He then has to take Ld tests to activate the powers in either the Shadow-bound armor or Metal-bound weapon.

I had also thought of something along the line of rolling a 1 with a weapon or a 1 to save with armor would cause the daemonsmith to make a Ld test. If he passes the test, all is well (besides missing his target or taking a wound). Otherwise, a failed Ld test would release the daemon from the item and it would no longer have its daemon-forged ability. This would result from the daemon resenting being imprisoned in an item, and taking advantage of the daemonsmith's misfortune to break free of his will. Instead of the item losing its ability, I could substitute something along the lines of a S4 hit or the like. For Enchanted Items the drawback could work somewhat similar, resulting from multiple 1s being rolled while casting a spell.

What do you think, too complicated?


I really like this idea! I think it makes the daemonsmith seem like an exorcist - who is a bully. Great stuff!

You are right about keeping track of all the Ld tests, though. How about this: Daemonsmiths can only choose items infused with demonic energy specific to a particular lore? That way, you wouldn’t have to worry about all the tests, etc. It would also open up the opportunity for large chaos dwarf forces to have multiple daemonsmiths using different lores, which I think would be really cool!


Good stuff, fits in very well with what chaos Dwarfs are about these days Imo.

About the drawbacks, maybe limit the option to take the different sorts of Daemon-bound with one character? For example you could either only kit out a character with only one sort of class? Or a different option; maybe one item of each class but never more than two different classes. Also then, if you’d put items of two different classes on a character the bound Daemons would be fighting each other, making it harder for the wearer’s will to keep control. An attack on himself to represend that, or maybe missing one turn while he tries to regain control again.


It occurred to me that giving Loremaster for the associated lore may not be the best way to go since other characters (such as Lord level casters) wouldn’t be able to choose spells from that lore. Instead, I think I’ll make two levels of the item. The lesser one will grant the bearer the full abilities of a level 1 wizard and he would roll for his spell as normal. The greater item would grant the bearer the full abilities of a level 2 wizard. Since daemonsmiths count as a level 1 wizard without spells, I think I’ll change it from an Enchanted Item to an Arcane Item.

I appreciate the feedback on the drawbacks. I don’t want to make these rules overly complicated.

I think limiting a daemonsmith to a certain group of daemons is the way to go. I have ideas for a few different items from each category. Originally I had planned on only one item for each category, but the creative juices are flowing. I’ll post my ideas when I have a bit more time.

thanks again for the comments and I look forward to getting more feedback.


It occurred to me that giving Loremaster for the associated lore may not be the best way to go since other characters (such as Lord level casters) wouldn't be able to choose spells from that lore.

If you don't roll for spells, then you don't take up those 'spells' for other casters.

EG: A Daemonsmith could have loremaster fire, and then a High Priest could roll four dice on the fire chart and still get four spells.


@ khedyarl: Thanks for pointing that out. I guess it would count as buying the spells anyhow.

I’ve come up with some specific items. There will be three items per daemon group for weapons and armor. I’ve made the item that allows the Daemonsmith to cast spells an Arcane Item. I will end up making an attached document for these rules once I get them more organized, play tested, and some fluff written.

I think I will allow Daemonsmiths 75 pts worth of Daemon-forged items. I may come up with another category similar to Runic Talismans in the dwarf list. If so, the Daemonsmith will only be able to take Daemon-bound items and no other magic items, like rune smiths.

A quick note on why I chose some of the rules I did seems in order. For the Fire-bound items, I wanted effects that were destructive and fast, like fire. The Metal-bound items focused on quality craftsmanship and making/destroying magic items. The Shadow-bound list is a little light right now. I see the armor as making the wearer insubstantial, thus the Ethereal rule and generally cloaking the wearer in darkness. I’m not sure what exactly to do for the weapon abilities. At first I was thinking bypassing armor, but perhaps I should make it more in line with the Lore of Shadows. The spells from the Lore tend to mess with stat lines. Again. suggestions/comments/criticism is encouraged. Also, I still need suggestions on points for some of the items.

This is the set of rules I am preparing to play test and this is also the rules that I am posting as an attachment. I still plan on writing some fluff for the final draft. Any input on point cost, rules ideas, etc. is appreciated.

Daemonsmith points/model: 70

Daemonsmith M 3; WS 5; BS 4; S 4; T 4; W 2; I 2 A 2; Ld 9

Equipment: Hand weapon and chaos armor.

Options: May have a shiled (+2 points).

May ride a Hell Forged Steed (+50 pts)

May choose items from the Daemon-Forged list, with a maximum total value of 75 points.

Hell Forged Steed M7; WS 5; BS 0; S 5; T 4; W 1; I 2; A 2; Ld7 (MB)

Hell-Forged Steed Special Rules:


Breath Weapon: S3 flaming attack.

Hell-Forged Hide: A Hell-Forged Steed adds +3 to its rider’s armor save, rather than the normal +1.

Daemon-Forged Items

Daemonsmiths may choose to specialize in binding and creating items with a specific type of Daemon. Any Daemon-forged items chosen for a single Daemonsmith must all come from the same type of Daemon.

If the Daemonsmith is armed with a Daemon-forged weapon, any “to hit” roll of 1 hits a friendly model in base contact with the Daemonsmith (this includes the character’s mount). If there are no friendly models in base contact, the Daemonsmith takes the hit himself.

If the Daemonsmith is equipped with Daemon-forged chaos armor, any armor save roll of 1 causes the Daemonsmith to gain the Stupidity rule until the beginning of his next turn as he tries to regain control over the rebellious daemon bound within his armor.

Infernal Daemons


Any Daemon-forged weapon with a bound Infernal Daemon may be given the flaming attacks ability for 5 points in addition to one other ability.

Once per battle, the bearer may make a special close combat attack instead of his normal attacks. The bearer causes 2D6 automatic S3 flaming hits, distributed as shooting, against an enemy unit he is in base contact with. (20 pts)

Each unsaved wound is causes D3 wounds.(20 pts)

For each hit the bearer inflicts in close combat, he can immediately make another attack. (40 pts)


Any Daemon-forged armor with a bound Infernal Daemon may grant the wearer immunity to flaming attacks for 10 points in addition to one other ability.

All successful hits in close combat against the wearer must be re-rolled. (45 pts)

The model attacking the wearer takes a S3 flaming hit for each successful armor save the wearer makes in close combat. (20 pts)

When the wearer suffers his final wound, before removing the model place the large blast template centered over him. All models touched by the template take a S3 flaming hit. (25 pts)

Arcane Item

The model gains Loremaster (Fire) and has the full capabilities of a Level 1 wizard. (30 pts)

Alkhem Daemons


Any Daemon-forged weapon with a bound Alkhem Daemon may have +1 to hit for 15 points in addition to one other ability.

The bearer has Heroic Killing Blow. (35 pts)

If the bearer successfully hits an enemy with a magic weapon, the daemon-forged weapon steals that weapon’s power and can use it until another power is stolen. (40 pts)

Bearer has +1 WS, +1 A. (25 pts)


Any Daemon-forged armor with a bound Alkhem Daemon may increase the armour save by +1 for 5 points in addition to one other ability.

Enemies attacking the wearer are -1 to hit. (20 pts)

Enemies attacking the wearer lose any special weapon qualities. (15 pts)

2+ ward save that degrades by 1 for each successful ward save made. (40 pts)

Arcane Item

The model gains Loremaster (Metal) and has the full capabilities of a Level 1 wizard. (30 pts)

Umbral Daemons


Any Daemon-forged weapon with a bound Umbral Daemon can have Armor Piercing attacks for 10 points.

When rolling to wound in close combat, the bearer treats his Strength as 1 higher than his target’s Toughness. (35 pts)

The bearer may re-roll failed To Wound rolls.(30 pts)

The bearer gains Always Strikes First. (20 pts)


Any Daemon-forged armor with a bound Umbral Daemon can give the bearer the Scout rule for 15 points in addition to one other ability.

The wearer is Ethereal. Model may not join units. (45 pts)

The wearer is immune to Killing Blow, Heroic Killing Blow, and Poisoned Attacks. (20 pts)

Whenever the wearer suffers a wound, he may nominate a friendly model in base contact with him to take the wound instead. (25 pts)

Arcane Item

The model gains Loremaster (Shadow) and has the full capabilities of a Level 1 wizard. (30 pts)


I’ve managed to come up with ideas for three abilities for the weapon and armor categories in each group. A lot of them still need point costs though. You can download the attachment in the first post now. All subsequent changes will be made to that document.

I am going to implement a drawback to using the weapons and armor upgrades (this will result in lowering the points a little from what I have currently listed. I am thinking abilities may drop 5 points apiece):

If you roll a 1 to wound with a weapon you will hit a friendly model in base contact or if there are no other models, the Daemonsmith will be hit himself.

If you roll a 1 on an armor save, the Daemonsmith will suffer from Stupidity next turn as he tries to regain control of the daemon bound within the item.

I am going to use the stat line of a Runesmith to represent the Daemonsmith. He will be able to take 75 points worth of Daemon-bound items. The Daemonsmith will be armed with a hand weapon and chaos armor and will have a shield upgrade. I also plan on making rules for a mount that Daemonsmiths may choose.

As always, criticism, comments, and advice are welcomed. I hope to finalize some of these rules and start play testing them.


There is now an attachment of the rules I am going to start playtesting available in the first post. I also updated the rules above to reflect the ones in the attachment for those who don’t want to download them.

These rules are meant to be used in a Ravening Hordes list and will replace the Hero level Sorcerers.

Feedback is appreciated. I’ll post some results of playtesting in the future.


I actually like this idea ^^ Say, why not include a fourth upgrade in the form of Glacial Daemons - the Loremaster upgrade could allow the Daemonsmith to use the new Lore of Winter