[Archive] Dropping hobgobbos completely...?

Grimstonefire:

The big one…

Having discussed CD with many non CD players over that last few days, I began to wonder whether we NEED hobgoblins/ slaves/ mercenaries as part of our list as UNITS at all?

Before you send me off to the Temple of Zharr for sacrifice, hear me out. :wink:

Fluff wise we could keep them as part of our society, as a lesser race of slavers.  They could be scouts, and a few tribes on the payroll to beat down the others.

Do they have to be in our list though?  Would we need them if our list was geared to be more elite?  You wouldn’t need the cannon fodder as you’d just have more cannons!

We could keep them there in some form (a slave beast, or slave models on a base/ machine etc), but basically what I’m talking about is removing them as complete units in core.

From another perspective look at the Dark Elves. They are also a great nation of slavers, but when they go to battle it’s serious stuff!  No space for slaves or mercenaries, even though they could have both fluff wise.

Does their list suffer because of it?  No.

It would mean a very radical rethink of our list, but would that be a bad thing?

Doogle:

Though I agree that CD need to be updated, and geared to be more elite as you put it, I still think we should keep the hobgobbos in our list. They are cheap, versatile, and fluff wise, I can see CD using them to perform the more menial tasks in battle (fodder). Just like we actually use them today.

One of the things that attracted me to the list in the first place was the change from just an all dwarf list to using slaves/hobgobbos and orcs to do their bidding.

I also like that we don’t need more than a few types of cannons to be successful in battle. All we need is the good old ES and we are good.

But I guess I am just conservative in my views of the CD list.

I personally like the hobgobbos as they are. But that is just me.

Grimstonefire:

Off topic, but is it just my imagination or am I always the one who tends to start these controversial threads?

I must be really radical :wink:

Doogle:

Haha, I did notice that you have another thread similar to this one about halfway down the page.

GRNDL:

Although I’m not a big CD player, I think the Hobbos are part of the army feel. The fluff states that the CDs rely on slave races to fill out ranks because of a population deficiency, which the hobbos perform very well, but I don’t think they should be a core choice.

I think people’s displeasure with hobbos is not what they represent but their stats/rules. I think people are divided on what they can contribute to the army overall.

However, with lots of CD players appearing to favour “counts as”, either as rules or just the models, I wonder if its really a big deal. Ok, so you don’t have a unit of greenskins, you have Kislevite Panda warriors (!) or something instead… /shrug.

Personally, I’m a gobbo fan, so I’ll always be rooting for them.

Vexxus:

I think that if new models ever came out for Hobgoblins, they would really try to play up the sinister, backstabbing ways, which could make for more separation from other greenskins, and some really sweet models and perhaps new rules.

Kera foehunter:

I say keep them!! they are the best things in the cd army  They are cheep mobs rules . grims say look at the dark elfs. ha ha   they are worst army in warhammer.they fight like sissy girls.

even the wood elves laugh at the dark elves… lets see how gw helps them with new rules

Theory_Man:

Hobgoblins and greenskin units are a “tactical crutch” in the CD army because of the flaws in the army list: no elite units besides BC, nerfed special choice dwarven war machines a.k.a. Death Rockets (compared to the special choice war machines of our goody two shoe cousins), and limited number of magical weapons (evil runes would be an awesome idea).

ashur:

Units like the sneaky gits and the wolf riders are useful because they perform tasks that CD cannot. As for the core units, they are obsolete if the CD really get their upgrade with more artillery and elite units. The old army list actually lack CD and give hobos a reason to be there. A CD army should rely on artillery, sorcery and dwarf warriors, not in greenskins.

They must stay in the background and must be rethinked, but no more as core choice.

asheira:

OFF TO THE TEMPLE!!!:mad

Although they should be changed a tad.

They should get spears. :slight_smile:

Leadblecher:

To the Temple, you sneeky git! They should stay core, but should change quite a bit.

1) They need a points boost to 5 points (please, hold the whip until I am finished).

2) They have a better stat line than goblins and make some of the best fast cav in the game (only fast cav with 4+ save). Possibly get spears, only if mounted.

3) They should loose animosity ( they live a “life of oppulance” apposed to other slaves)

4) They need to effect other non-hobo greenskins in a different way. Whenever any other greenskin unit rolls a 1 on animosity, they should have to go 2d6 near the closest visibly hobo unit and attack if they hit it. If none is visibly, squabble as normal (They hate them with a passion).

Thats what I think.

furrie:

the thing for the animosity is a good idea, but I would do it that when no hobo unit is visible that the would go to the nearest greenskin unit and if no other greenskin unit is visible then they would squabble

Ishkur Cinderhat:

There is a very hot bath waiting for you at the temple, Grim. :hat

IMO it would be a shame to drop the Hobgoblins. They make our army list special, without them we would be reduced to “evil dwarfs” which is not the same thing.

cornixt:

It might be nice to have HGs as a sort of elf version of the greenskin (other greenskins already hate them so this can be another reason) - elite skills, but fragile. Maybe WS4 and I5, but still lows stats everywhere else.

Grimstonefire:

23% apprx for dropping is more than I thought I would get :wink:

Looks like I will have my work cut out to think of appropriate core alternatives for a CD pure list.

Theory_Man:

Lots of votes for sacrifice.

Things are looking “Grim” for Herr Stonefire. :slight_smile:

Grimstonefire:

@Theory_Man

You say that with worrying glee! :slight_smile:

Hobgoblyn:

I rolled up Hobgoblins into their own army list to represent the horde of Hobgobala Khan and divisions of it that might work for anyone.

http://www.zakyotoshi.com/HobgoblinArmyList.htm

I ended up giving them about as many options as most army lists have and then certain units from the list would be designated as units that the Chaos Dwarfs would typically enslave (so they could take them from the list the same as they take units from the Orcs & Goblins list and assumably the Ogre Kingdoms list too).

By switching two distinctly different races to two distinctly different lists and then allowing the Chaos Dwarfs to spend points on certain options from other army lists it allows each list to focus more on the special abilities of that particular army. Although both Hobgoblins and Chaos Dwarfs are cool, Hobgoblins are about medium sized hordes of expendible units, fast-moving calvary, poison, medium-range arrow pelting and dirty tricks while Chaos Dwarfs are about slow moving but heavily armored and dangerous warriors covered by short-ranged blasting blunderbusses and backed by powerful magic and war machines. When combined neither one really does what it is supposed to, Hobgoblins get turned into less-specialized and ultimately subpar Goblins and Chaos Dwarfs can’t really show off their war machines as well.

Granted, if you are attempting to make an army that is a ‘jack-of-all-trades’ then I suppose having an army list where you have something that fills every possible niche is certainly helpful to you.

Obsidian:

I love Hobgoblins! Just not as part of the Chaos Dwarf army, I 've always fielded a pure Chaos Dwarf force.

So my vote goes to something else, an armylist of their own represending the Golden Horde-Mournguls as stated by Hobgoblyn above.

minty:

but hobgobins are awesome

burn grim burn, your sacrifice has the highest number of votes. I’ll make the apointment for you:)

dark elves work fine without slaves, but they are almost high elves but with a different shceme, as would dawi zharr and dawi f we changed them