Grimstonefire:
So I confess I’m not up to date with my end times fluff, age of sigmar rumours or fluff etc. But where the elves have all been lumped together in one ‘faction’, what about Chaos Dwarfs and Dwarfs?
Thoughts?
Dînadan:
GW answer: Yeah, sure, why not? That works right?
Fluff answer: I personally can’t see it as the hatred is too deeply ingrained in the dwarfen psyche to allow for reconciliation. And unlike with the Elves there’s no Phoenix King analogue to draw them together. Closest would be if the White Dwarf showed up and said “We’re all dwarfs so play nice” but I can’t see that happening. The more likely outcome is all the holds on both sides becoming isolationist and sealing out the outside world, including each other hoping to survive.
Doombeard:
I can’t see it, but then they did mash together Elves, which was kinda lame.
Skink:
Well, think at it this way. Dark Elves worshipped the “evil” gods of the Elven pantheon. High Elves instead worshipped, or at least paid respect to, all the Elven deities. Now, what if Dwarfs find out that Hashut is an Ancestor God (albeit not a “positive” one)? They would be forced to recognize us not as mutants, but as their distant kin, and they would start worshipping Hashut themselves.
Dînadan:
Unless they saw Hashut as a traitor because he aligned himself with Chaos. And that doesn’t automatically dispell the dwarfen ability to hold a grudge beyond the grave; even if they accepted Dawi Zharr as kin, they’d all be branded as kinslayers more like than not and still be outcast.
cornixt:
It looks to me like Chaos Dwarfs will simply be dwarfs who follow Hashut. With possible the pick-any-unit style army selection, we can add greenskins and pretty much recreate our current army within the new rule system. We’ll have to see if it pans out that way.
ashur:
I think Grimnir and Hashut would have to come back and make them understand they are kin or something like that. I like the idea of Hashut being a dwarf god and not a chaos one.
Also, you should get rid of the greenskin slaves (wich is perfect as far as I’m concerned).
It would be a great idea to “balance” both races. Dwarfs start embracing crazy technical innovations, and Chaos Dwarfs start recovering some of their former nobility. All in the name of survival.
You can find ways to make this happened, especially if the alternative is the end of all things and the gods themselves demand it to ensure dwarfs survive and play a part in the future.
The army in itself would look great. Make the dwarfs look more dark, and make the Chaos Dwarfs look less chaotic.
I like the idea.
gIL^:
Chaos dwarfs are not that Chaotic anyway, They don’t have spikes, skulls or mutations.
CD hobbiests have to put extra effort to make them more chaos. Like icons etc.
Dînadan:
Chaos dwarfs are not that Chaotic anyway, They don't have spikes, skulls or mutations.Except some have tusks, some have horns and Bull Centaurs and Lamasu (and Taurii I think) are mutated Chaos Dwarfs. And the fact that some can use magic probably counts as a mutation, not to mention the whole petrification that comes with it.
gIL^
;P
gIL^:
well in that case everyones a mutation as the horns are a natural evolution from being in the darklands.
In the Tamurkhan fluff every Chaos dwarf has horns & Tusks, Infernal guard have theirs removed. There isn’t no half centaurs or half lammasu’s. But with normal Chaos mutation is suddern and unpredicatable, Not so With Chaos Dwarfs. Chaos Dwarf mutation is super rare and only happens to the ones that touch chaos directly which happens to every living thing.
Think of this, Chaos legions are inherently Chaotic. Chaos Dwarfs are remarkably Unchaotic. They have order. strategy and are forward thinking creating industry and society. Where Warriors just kill each other till gods say kill someone else, Very Chaotic. In tamurkhan it differentiates between the Chaos dwarfs and Chaos-Touched tribes which to me sounds that the Chaos Dwarfs are not infact Dwarf touched.
I mean Chaos Dwarfs don’t even consider themselves as Chaos, They call themselves Dawi Zharr which translates to Dwarfs of the Place of Fire ( Chaos Dwarfs is the name the Empire give them and probably the Dwarfs ) Now don’t get me wrong they are evil as heck and they worship the father of Darkness, But funny enough Chaos Dwarf don’t even understand what Hashut is or how they came under his service. Hashut is a Chaos God but the Chaos dwarfs don’t know that. You can find on page 165 in tamurkhan.
Dînadan:
I don’t think they’re a natural evolution of being in the Darklands (otherwise the Greenskins living there would sport similar adaptions) - fairly sure it’s a stable mutation due to their dwarfen blood being tainted by in influx of Chaos before the covenant with Jashut was made. And as for your claim of no tusks - go look at the old minis again and the bareheaded Forge World ones; some (not all) have prominent tusks in their mouths.
Timothy Archer:
What about the marauders . Chaos dwarf with mutations they are chaos dwarfs too
Personally I would hate the chaos dwarfs and dwarf together, being “brothers” again. Complete nonsense.
Chaos dwarf, specially the last FW ones . Use possession in their cannons and every aspect of their life. To me this is absolutely chaotic…
T
Dînadan:
Also, the stance that all followers of Chaos are mindless savages that live only for killing is complete nonsense and at best only apples to the northern tribes. The cults with the Empire and other places are far more organised (especially those dedicated to Tzeentch that focus on scheming).
Also, where’d you get the idea that Chaos Dwarfs deny the Chaos pantheon? They don’t actively worship it and dedicate themselves to Hashut, but how is this any different to a mono-Khorne tribe only worshiping Khorne and never one of the other gods?
Timothy Archer:
Also, the stance that all followers of Chaos are mindless savages that live only for killing is complete nonsense and at best only apples to the northern tribes. The cults with the Empire and other places are far more organised (especially those dedicated to Tzeentch that focus on scheming).Exactly ashut does not look like he could be related to dwarfs gods
Also, where'd you get the idea that Chaos Dwarfs deny the Chaos pantheon? They don't actively worship it and dedicate themselves to Hashut, but how is this any different to a mono-Khorne tribe only worshiping Khorne and never one of the other gods?
Dînadan
. They are not the "evil dwarfs" but the chaos dwarf. Their aristocratic look is the only remaining thing of their original blood but they have been chosen by hashut to be his progeny. What about the sacrifice, do you think this look like a normal dwarf way to praise their gods
Dînadan:
Just dug Tamurkhan out and your actually incorect gIL^ - it doesn’t say that all Chaos Dwarfs have horns:
.
Chaos Dawrfs often possess protruding tusks…and they are commonly grey-fleshed and red of eye. Many have small horns that just from their forehead and some even have cloven hooves and worse - although such extreme mutations are rare amongst ordinary Chaos Dwarfs and more common amongst sorcerers and those that have the most direct contact with the stuff of Chaos.
On Bull Centaurs:
It goes on to say new BCs are born to regular mothers implying they are mutated in the womb.
Many centuries ago, during the Time of Chaos, a fraction of those that survived the onslaught became horrifically mutated, their stubborn Dwarf resistance to the warping taint was overwhelmed utterly by the awful energies to which. They were subjected, and so the first Bull Centaurs were born.
gIL^:
Your splitting hairs, The average Chaos Dwarf has horns and they gain mutation when direct contact with chaos like i said.
If you go by the current fluff and model range EVERY Chaos dwarf has horns except the ones who have had them cut off, So it would be very wise to assume that the Normality would be horns. I mean the normal rank and file of the Chaos Dwarf empire have helmets that accommodate horns.
As far as bringing up different versions of chaos dwarfs, Go ahead it’s a hobby but lets not mistake current fluff with older Chaos Dwarf mini’s.
Dînadan:
Except it doesn’t say they only mutate when directly exposed to ‘Chaos stuff’ just that that increases mutation, which is the same as the human worshipers of Chaos - and my point is you claimed that horns and tusks weren’t mutations even though that’s what the fluff explicitly calls them, so that’s hardly splitting hairs. Also this is a fluff discussion, so the fact that all bare headed FW minis have those mutations doesn’t override the fact that the fluff explicitly says that most, not all posses them.
Grimstonefire:
Perhaps they will expand on the exact nature of Hashut in the rulebook?
I know it’s a crazy dream, but I’d love them to do a ‘whilst stocks last’ set of plastic Chaos Dwarfs that sell out faster than any of their sigmarines. Then they may pay attention.
Dînadan:
Perhaps they will expand on the exact nature of Hashut in the rulebook?Well, if they did plastic recasts of the old blunderbusses, they'd definitely sell out fast provided they weren't priced dearer than the original metals on eBay, lol.
I know it's a crazy dream, but I'd love them to do a 'whilst stocks last' set of plastic Chaos Dwarfs that sell out faster than any of their sigmarines. Then they may pay attention.
Grimstonefire
Helblindi:
Well, think at it this way. Dark Elves worshipped the "evil" gods of the Elven pantheon. High Elves instead worshipped, or at least paid respect to, all the Elven deities. Now, what if Dwarfs find out that Hashut is an Ancestor God (albeit not a "positive" one)? They would be forced to recognize us not as mutants, but as their distant kin, and they would start worshipping Hashut themselves.What if Hashut is really a projection of Grimnir? Since he is fighting inside the warp, he is in a constant state of rage and war. But being a god inside the warp, maybe that can somehow manifest in the real world, as Hashut. Now that Gotrek has replaced Grimnir in the warp (am I correct here? Not entirely up to speed) he could reveal to both dwarf races that Hashut was really a manifestation of his warrior spirit, maybe by now developed into a seperate, indipendent deity, and so unite the dwarf kin.
Skink
Or not. I like the idea, my dwarfs and CDs live pretty peacefully together already.