[Archive] ETC's bans Chaos dwarves

cornixt:

Be nice people!

I like the idea that people are trying to improve upon the original rules to make them work better for them. The large number of tweaks seems odd because then it just starts to look more like they don’t really know what they are doing. I can see the odd tweak being done to tone certain things down, not wholesale alteration of half the rules and armies which is what appears to be done.

From what I understand of ETC, their rules aren’t the same as “balancing Warhammer” since players selecting the army match-ups are a key component to the tournaments, so creating a series of one-dimensional armies is a more realistic proposition for winning and they need to prevent that from being the main decider of who wins.

GodHead:

I’ll fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.

If the ETC became established in North America, I’d likely give up the game.

JonJon:

we will fight them in the sky …we will fight them on land…we will fight them in the white dwarf

but most of all we will fight them with Chaos Dwarves

KramDratta:

From what I understand of ETC, their rules aren't the same as "balancing Warhammer" since players selecting the army match-ups are a key component to the tournaments, so creating a series of one-dimensional armies is a more realistic proposition for winning and they need to prevent that from being the main decider of who wins.

cornixt
+1 This

Also note that the first Draft is usually very restrictive on purpose, and then countries vote certain restrictions in/out. But as Cornixt said pls keep in mind that the tournament is based on matchups between 8 vs 8 armies.

Re the Chaos Dwarfs not being included, note that the choice passed 3/2 against. And after asking the Committee I got a reply that their choice can be overridden by a captain's vote, which is why I posted as much and there will be a vote very soon (not claiming credit here.. others have done more about this than me).

So fellow Chaos Dwarfs, pls spread the word out. I beleive that if we are included in this tournament, we can only benefit from the exposure of having all countries check out what Chaos Dwarfs do and other tournaments will follow (as there are many tournaments that base their rulespack on the ETC).

ChungEssence:

Very interesting to read about playtesting on the Daemon book. That thing was horrid.

I really think GW is putting in much more effort into balancing their 8th edition books than they were with 7th, which was screwed once Vampire Counts came out with the way the magic system worked.

Re: the ETC restrictions, they’re just a set of house rules, i play by these all the time. Looking at some of the stuff they say is/isn’t ok I don’t really think it’s any more balanced than ‘normal’ Warhammer and it just encourages people to try and ‘exploit’ their restrictions as much as possible as opposed to the normal Warhammer ones. Like someone said, it’s not ‘Warhammer’. That said, their tournament, their rules, no problems there. I hope all the players involved have a good time.

Still, in general though it does make me think… what happenned to the ‘battle tells a story’ type mentality and I think it’s a shame that winning is emphasised so much now as in some people will only really seem to enjoy the game if they win. I personally like trying all kinds of lists and different things, whether they are ‘competitive’ or not. Some of my favourite games have been ones that i’ve lost… but boy were they epic!

Shimsham:

I played in an ETC tournament a few years ago (Sydney, Australia) and I was using my Orcs and Goblins. Towards the end of 7th edition most armies were fairly established and people had really had enough time, years in fact, to see how certain armies fared in the climate. As a result, at this 2250pt tournament, 3 armies (OnG, Ogres and Tomb kings) were allowed a max of 2600 points and were allowed extra slots from the special section of their army books. Other armies, I can’t remember which but daemons were definitely included, were knocked down to 2000 points max. The rest were untouched. I found that even with the extra points my army was still poor compared to others, and the extra points would work against me when it came to tallying up VP’s. Now I’m not the greatest player, and I do play for the fun of it,( hence OnG!) but it was fairly well known that in 7th some armies were not competitive. I did ok, but if I was playing on an even footing with demons, bar a miracle, I’d likely get wiped. I did play a deamon army and I still lost, but against other armies I felt a bit better.

That being said, I’d still play OnG at a tournament, and with a max unit size of 40 models, that would pretty much count out my goblin units. If I am forced to try and play elite orcs, I won’t play. You NEED goblin shenanigans!

I hate it when I hear people who say that chaos dwarfs are dead and shouldn’t come back. That they were silly then, and are silly now, but that is exceptionally short sighted. The chaos dwarfs should be recognised as a valid army and reintroduced with open arms. Saying people won’t be as familiar with the rules or the army is a weak excuse, as if that is valid, you would never see another army get introduced again, and ogres would have been a “friendly” unapproved playlist.

rant out, drops mic

rant back

Matt Ward wrote both Daemons and the OnG book. He wasn’t even an OnG player. Such an idiot should never have any the reins of any rulebook.

*rant definitely out!

Abecedar:

@chungessence.  I remember playing pool in the pub one saturday arvo, still in my soccer outfit, bloodied and dirty.  A couple of locals walked in, saw us havin’ a whale of a time and yelled “did ya win boys”.   “Nah, I replied, those bastards in the corner beat us 3 - 2, (loud rousing cheer from the Huskisson crowd) but had a F…n great game though” and proceeded to have an excellent evening. The publican didn’t even bother to kick us out on dress code.  Cemented friendships with those guys for years.

and I was in CanCon only a week or so ago, (Tamurkhan was not allowed), Knew I was outclassed, lost totally, 8 for 8, and hopefully made a few friends.

So, I’m with you.  Good hard ‘n’ fair game is all I ask for and if I’m totally out-classed, Oh Well …

Border Reiver:

I’m allowed the Tamurkhan list for Games Summit.

All it took was letting the organizer read the list.