unheilig:
I don’t feel like I have a solid grasp at all for what they are going for…
Will they produce basic warriors soon? are infernals meant to be core?
why is the dreadquake so dreadfully underpowered? small template? really?
We are supposed to pay EXTRA points for the dumb steam carriages that come as part of the war machine models (which are already overcosted IMHO)?
so far everything feels disjointed and ineffectual. As someone trying to come back to playing chaos dwarfs (former ravening hordes player), this is not a very attractive time.
rabotak:
In german, there is a saying going something like “nothing is eaten as hot as it´s cooked”, effectively meaning that nothing is set in stone yet but theres already a whole lot of fuzz going on. as i already mentioned in another thread, i too believe there is some bits ´n bobs in need of tweaking, but for a first draft of experimental rules (in many ways a beta-version) theyre quite ok… in the end i guess the rules will be somewhere between these experimental pdfs and the draft we know from games day france, with a bit of tweaking around points costs.
IMO, the reason the dqm looks overcosted and/or underpowered
is that there was a whole lot of whining mainly on warseer about how OP/UC the magma cannon was… for me, it fits perfectly with the later release-date of the tamurkhan-book, while telling they need more artwork, i guess it could also be an issue of waiting on how the community reacts and possibly adapting to it.
another thing we don´t know yet is if there is going to be two sets of lists coming out, or just one, the legion of azhgor - a lot of things will depend on this issue, core infernals for example… i just don´t see them as core in a “regular” cd list…
Thommy H:
I agree with the term “underwhelming”. I remember being quite critical of the Indy GT list when it first came out, because (at least in the initial draft) it was really just “Ravening Hordes plus a couple of new units and war machines”. It didn’t feel like an advance equal to the advances the other armies in the game had made - it was an Edition’s worth of development, in a span of time better suited to three Edition’s worth of it.
The WF rules feel the same. I get the impression they had the idea for a big Chaos Dwarf train for WoC, and were so shocked by the reaction to it that they decided to spin it out into a whole army. And they don’t really have the skills or resources to do that in a way that measures up to the new armies coming out of the main GW studio.
KingFisher:
I agree with the term "underwhelming". I remember being quite critical of the Indy GT list when it first came out, because (at least in the initial draft) it was really just "Ravening Hordes plus a couple of new units and war machines". It didn't feel like an advance equal to the advances the other armies in the game had made - it was an Edition's worth of development, in a span of time better suited to three Edition's worth of it.
The WF rules feel the same. I get the impression they had the idea for a big Chaos Dwarf train for WoC, and were so shocked by the reaction to it that they decided to spin it out into a whole army. And they don't really have the skills or resources to do that in a way that measures up to the new armies coming out of the main GW studio.
Thommy H
Well that is logically consistent with the existing roll for the chaos dwarfs within the WoC army they run the war machines. In a United chaos sort of effort that would be their only role.
We know your 100% right because the art on the website for the DQM is the exact same model that has been showed off for over a year. Clearly the train was developed first and additional units would come out with the further Priestly books for the other chaos gods.
ChungEssence:
The Chaos Dwarf Flame cannon needs to be toned down. It’s too powerful for the points cost atm.
"why is the dreadquake so dreadfully underpowered? small template? really?"
Lol, it’s like the biggest mortar type thing there is so I agree the small template is ridiculous
Admiral:
I agree with the term "underwhelming". I remember being quite critical of the Indy GT list when it first came out, because (at least in the initial draft) it was really just "Ravening Hordes plus a couple of new units and war machines". It didn't feel like an advance equal to the advances the other armies in the game had made - it was an Edition's worth of development, in a span of time better suited to three Edition's worth of it.
The WF rules feel the same. I get the impression they had the idea for a big Chaos Dwarf train for WoC, and were so shocked by the reaction to it that they decided to spin it out into a whole army. And they don't really have the skills or resources to do that in a way that measures up to the new armies coming out of the main GW studio.
Thommy H
Agreed. My hopes are instead for GW introducing one or three Chaos Dwarf units into the mortal Warriors of Chaos army book when it's redone. With sufficient upgrade options, they could cover the CD army. Chaos army lists (Slaves to Darkness etc) always were huge, and introducing CDs into WoC would be a great way to compensate for "removing" Daemons (that is, moving them into an army book of their own), as a friend of mine with CD-WoC hybrid plans told me. The Hellcannon is already there, so it's just a small step. GW need not even release any models, although a plastic CD kit would be most appreciated.
Of course, I'll be just fine playing my slowly growing CDs as Dwarfs in tournaments, but some true army book, or part of one, would be great.
BeeZharr:
I doubt they’ll be a full range of models produced by Forge World - it’s not their role. As I understand, FW is there to make characterful models based on a bit of detailed fluff.
For instance, the Iron Daemon and the associated carriages are not intended to be something that would appear in a normal GW army book. It represents a ‘special character’, a one off unique unit. FW are creating the Chaos Dwarf models to represent certain characters and players for a specific fluff based campaign - not to represent a range for a new army.
The Infernal Guard, as FW explain it, are unique to the Black Fortress and in the list in Tamurkhan they will be a core unit (I think). If you were building an army to represent one coming from Zharr Naggrund, you probably wouldn’t find any Infernal Guard in it (though maybe as a special/rare choice).
I wouldn’t expect the FW list to represent everything and I’d expect the model range to be even more limited. Yet, it is a good start and I don’t think even GW knows what they’ll do with them long term.