[Archive] Extortionate prices of models

Archive [Archive] Wargame News and Discussion
1

gIL^:

Im not sure if im irrationally irate. But i tried buying a model from Hasslefree miniatures. I took a screen



What makes me angry is the fact that:

Model price
Model VAT
Postage
Postage VAT

Is it really necessary to throw all these stealth taxes upon customers at the checkout? I mean Royal Mail is exempt from VAT anyway so what is the deal here?

They lost a sale from me i have to say.

Do you guys accept business behavior like this?

2

sam585:

If you ordered like 20 would the taxes be less or more?

3

DAGabriel:

In Germany I would pay 9,50�,� at Battlefield Berlin,

5,50 for Klagg incl VAT, 4 for postage (Don`t know if there is VAT for postage).

Currently that would be 6,96 GBP.

One of the reasons I try to top 50�,� per order to get free postage.

4

gIL^:

VAT Total £13.07
Order Total £78.42

For 20. So there would be a saving, But were talking one mini, Hasslefree do random minis. Theres only one mini i want who wants 20 Klagg’s?

If Hasslefree did a wide range of minis i like then it would almost be worth it. But I ONLY WANT KLAGG :smiley:

5

sam585:

Could make a pretty cool monopose infernal guard regiment with greatweapons…

6

gIL^:

He’s going in my unit of pirates, There all Hellcannon crew.

7

cornixt:

Businesses that deal with other businesses are allowed to show a VATless price. Not sure why anyone would buy miniatures at regular prices for their business though, rather than wholesale or through a distributor, or even if anyone does.

8

gIL^:

Theres a complete lack of stockists for Hasslefree, I can’t get Klagg Morgrief for less than HF prices.

9

Roark:

Hey Gil, can I ask how you acquired a unit’s worth of Hellcannon crew? I’m interested for my own project…

10

gIL^:

Just Years of collecting pal. Still don’t have enough of them sadly so you have competition :smiley:

You check them out on my blog. Just click the banner.

11

torn:

Hassle free are a joke. I have bought from them in the past, but their forum of doom presence is all just complaining that they need money for mortgages and bills etc and that’s why its OK to charge the extortionate prices they do. I was going to buy 4 sci fi models a few months ago but after check out it was nearly £50 with vat and postage etc. Clicked it off in disgust.

12

snowblizz:

What makes me angry is the fact that:

Model price
Model VAT
Postage
Postage VAT

Is it really necessary to throw all these stealth taxes upon customers at the checkout? I mean Royal Mail is exempt from VAT anyway so what is the deal here?

gIL^
Yes, yes it is. Normally these are "hidden", as in they are included in the price and you only see it as tiny print on the receipt. However, there are several movements that intend for such "hidden" costs being visible. And different countries deal with it differently.
Furthermore, Hasslefree are not required to (indeed it could be argued aren't allowed to) charge VAT for international orders, which means they have to have an ordering system that can take this in account. Hence, you get a situation where it is tacked on at the end instead. Further furthermore, inside the EU each person pays VAT charges applicable in their own country, and any business with a certain amount of business in a member country will be "transferring" that VAT to the respective country. The order system needs to be able to cope with that as well. Most order system will be tuned to the american market where e.g. sales tax is only tacked on at the end if you live in the "wrong" state.

Royal Mail may be excmept from VAT, but *YOU* are not, and YOU are the one who are being charged VAT in your role as consumer, whether you are purchasing a model or the service to transport said model. Which is what VAT is, a tax on the consumer. Your beef my good sir, is with the politicians and society that taxes you. Grab some tea and throw in the closest harbour.

Finally I'll point out there are different rates of VAT which is why you often may have different liens for it, and of course the seller must specify exactly what rate is applied to what items.
Do you guys accept business behavior like this?

gIL^
Umm... if I want to eat, drink, sleep or in any capacity exist in modern society, yes, you (and I) have to. Every single day. Death and taxes, the only sureties in life. It's not a behaviour, they are doing exactly what the laws require them to do.
What is your expectation here? That Hasslefree break the taxation codes because you don't feel like paying them? That they should pay them out of their own pocket? Which would also be breaking the law most likely.

How about you whiners pop over to a Games Workshop store and ask them if they will sell you stuff tax free. See how that goes? You might find that it is a all a big conspiracy and all of these bloody gougers expect you to pay VAT.
13

gIL^:

How about they don’t charge £7 for one model?

14

snowblizz:

How about they don't charge £7 for one model?

gIL^
But they don't do that! They charge you 3.50£ for a model (of which 0.58£ goes in the government's pocket), so really they are charging you 2.92£.
Then they charge you an extra £3.60 in shipping because you want the luxury of not picking it up in person. The second part is not exactly something they can control other than foot the bill for shipping, but I'd hope you can see how that's not going to be feasible for them.

If you feel that £3.50 is a lot for a model then, hey that's your choice. But that means you think the model's price is expensive, and not extortion. GW charges £9 for single models...
If you don't want to pay for the service of having it carried home to you for £3.60, well, that's also your prerogative. But again, why bitch about this option?

You didn't answer my question. What do you expect these small business should do. Give you models for free?

I don't want to pay hundreds of thousands for a Ferrari either. Or hundreds of pounds for single Forge World models. So I don't buy them.
15

gIL^:

I want them to charge less. I could give you dozens of mini companies that charge less for a mini. My main gripe is the postage. Why is postage £3 when i live just over 100 miles and £4 for Afghanistan? It does not cost £3 + VAT to post a 28mm model to my house. Can you at least concede their being a bit greedy?

You also bring up Games Workshop, Bit of a dumb comparison if you ask me. They have 100’s stores, They are a corporation that hires 1000’s of people. Hasslefree miniatures is a sole trader.

To think im defending GW.

16

Thommy H:

I want them to charge less. I could give you dozens of mini companies that charge less for a mini.

gIL^
Buy from them instead then?

I've never had any issues with Hasslefree's service or prices - indeed, they're widely considered the industry standard amongst independent miniature companies.

Plus, looking at the breakdown of the prices, it's pretty clear that over 50% is coming from postage. Not a lot they can do about those charges, really. If you buy one toy, you're going to pay over the odds to get it packaged and delivered.
17

snowblizz:

My main gripe is the postage. Why is postage £3 when i live just over 100 miles and £4 for Afghanistan? It does not cost £3 + VAT to post a 28mm model to my house. Can you at least concede their being a bit greedy?

gIL^
Because Royal Mail charges that rate for domestic packages. And that's all there is to it. Postage rates are "simplified". It costs the same to send something to your neighbour as it does some one on the other side of the country. You can try that too. Go to the post office and demand a lower rate because you are sending it to your neighbour and see it they bite. In fact the work needed to make it happen is exactly the same nowadays.
To be honest £3 shouldn't get the miniature out the door even. That's like 15 minutes of pay. I couldn't get a pizza delivered from the closest pizza joint for that. From a certain point of view it is actually a small wonder it is as cheap as it is at £3. Just as interesting incident I once bought a greeting card and got 20c off in a store because I paid cash and didn't take a bag for it. I basically had no more cash on me so it was either that or I swipe the debit card. The store owner told me it basically evened the trade out. That's the margins the small shops often work with.

If that's the shipping option I think it is you should know the cost of sending stuff to Afghanistan is heavily subsidized (by your taxes no less). That's not an international order is it?, but a BFPO or whatever they are called. Which goes through the armed forces' logistical system as a small thank you for their service basically (I think at least). Or to put it differently the government pays part of the shipping out of other taxes. It can even be subsidized by the seller themselves for the same reasons sometimes, but it's hard to tell (I've known many miniature manufacturers that do that). I also feel it is bloody unfair that some shmuck in the Afgan desert gets cheaper shipping, but people get really angry with me when I point it out and start raving about serving their country and stuff like that.

Hasslefree is actually a couple, Kev and his wife whose name now escapes me who does the business side and stuff. Of course they put chocolates in the package last time I ordered from them many years ago so obviously I'm totally biased. The point is however, that they have none of the economies of scale that a larger company like GW can take advantage off. One of which is getting a better deal to send stuff through RM.

I could go on and rant about how annoying it is that the models are 25mm and not the the GW size I foolishly expected, regardless of what the site told me about scale. But I'm not, because, well like shipping charges, that's not their fault either.

At the end of the day you are ranting at small family operation that they are doing what they must and charging the rates they have to. I feel your anger is somewhat misplaced, to say the least.
18

Thommy H:

Also: jiffy bags come in set sizes. “One 28mm model” has the same P+P as, like, five of them because the packaging will be the same.

And you know you don’t have to get 1st class delivery, right? Why do you need a model in 1-2 business days anyway?

19

torn:

I think the point is that despite being a UK company and UK site, it is not made obvious before checkout that the prices despite being in British pounds, are not what you will get charged if you live in Britain. A lot of sites that sell with/without VAT will shows prices for both.

The postage is a rip off. I sent some models to bloodbeard last year to denmark and that cost around £3.50.

Kev White = great sculptor, Hasslefree = not competitive business

20

snowblizz:

The postage is a rip off. I sent some models to bloodbeard last year to denmark and that cost around £3.50.

torn
£3.50? How on earth did you agree to do that. Total rip-off, you should only have paid £1. Heck, move to China and there'd be no charge at all! Since the mail service only charge what you feel they should, regardless of reality, you totally ripped Bloodbeard off there. Shame on you!