24 x Chaos Dwarf Warriors
full command and a war banner
+ Chaos dwarf BSB with Sword of Might and Armour of Gazarakh
Will win against everything who don't have 3 ranks + banner
qwe50
I so agree as well.
The only place I would use Grt weapons in my core warriors would be in a 10 man unit that I intent to support a large block of hnd weapon & shield dwarves. Otherwise, they are just not worth the points. In fact I would probably use black orc for this instead. Let the chaos dwarves turtle up and take the charge and have the black orcs answer if the static combat resolution does not do it for you. Black orcs are move 4, srt 4, and can choose to go with grt weapon or two chopps (+1 str first round). To answer my question more definitively. Don't take them on your core troops.
Static res does swing combats, but around here, most infantry units in combat are already looking at the +4 for ranks and banner before you start looking at kills and outnumber. I like having the option of being able to use the GW when the situation calls for it and HW and shield when the situation calls for that.
This is rapidly becoming a look at personal preferences. I can see the points for both POV, but I know that when I’m making my own army I’m going to be using the build I find optimal - which means my CD warriors will cost me 11 pts each and I’ve got to choose weapon fits before combat.
As I noted in WoH #3 is becomes an issue of absorbing the hits and fighting back; you Re highly unlikely to get a charge on knights and they are going to be crashing into yopu with what a -2 to your save? How many times are you going roll a 6 on the armor save? It might happen but not enough to matter. At least with GW you have a change to man up and whack them back in return.
You will have a 5+ save against a -2 modifier (Heavy armour, shield, HW + Shield bonus) so it cuts a third of their wounding hits out. If it were a 6+, then yeah I would consider the great weapons, but even then you have the subsequent rounds to worry about. And a lot of knights will still save your S5 hits on a 3/4+ after half your attacks miss and 1 or 2 don't wound (although against ppl like Chaos Knights there won't be anyone fighting back if you don't use shields :)).
man up and whack them back in return.
I think many years of playing Undead have affected my play style, I no longer expect nor require my rank and file to kill anything :cheers
and 1/3 of you wounds can be really importent - the less you loose, the more chance you make you ld test not to run - round 2 when the knights don’t have lances will be much more fun.
I side with HW and shields. In my small experience my dwarfs never kill anything, even skellies :h but they are a real tarpit. That’s I think they shall never die, each dead is a lost combat resolution point! The enemy shall stuck on the dwarfs up to next couple of rounds when finally orcs with two choppas could counterattack.
I think that one thing people are guilty of thou is what they compare them against; they are not Chaos Warriors, nor High Elf Sword Masters. Taken for what they are the are not that bad. True they might not be the best infantry unit in our list , ( the Black orcs are), they aren’t horrendous either.
Thats the thing, they are kind of neither here nor there, and for competetive games where armies are likely composed of Monsters and heavy cavlary galore, Id rather have units that can take the hits for cheap then units that hit hard buat are unlikely to get a decent flank charge.
For nice friendly games its worth taking them I guess but for competetion its best to stick with tough units of HW + Shields, and let the killing fall to your missle fire, spells, lords in cc, and BC, Hobbos or Black Orcs, and the GT for flanking.
I think that the most important determining factor on their effectiveness is what else is in y
our army
e.g.
25 warriors (NO GW) - supported by Black orcs / bull centaurs / small units of other warriors with GW = great - dwarfs act as anvil and provide the static but not the active combat res
In other army builds - i.e 2 EarthShaker builds where there are less hammer units around then the warriors need to be more multi-functional so GW’s are a better option
Personally I prefer not to give mine GW but then i often use at least 1 unit of Bull Centaurs as well as a small unit of Black Orcs. My CD warriors are such darn good reliable troops and providers of static CR by themselves that i often let them take the charge and grind down the opposition in subsequent turns and / or flank them with a handy unit of blunderbuss’s
I cant really see the harm in a unit of 14 GW wielding warriors. For Musician and Standard+ 14 warriors w/ GW is only- 174 pts. For the same amount(almost) of points you can get 17 shield and HW plus Musician and standard. It’s only a 3 model increase but it’s good to be diverse.
Hand weapon/shields is much better for anvil type units.
If you need a small flanking force then great weapons might be an option. However as others have stated there are better things in the list to fulfill that role. And ultimately if you are flanking you shouldn’t need high S attacks as elminating the enemies ranks should be enough to win combat.
10 Great weapon warriors = 110pts
For 105pts I can get 5 bull centaurs which due the job better.
Bottom line is with only 1 attack great weapons are a huge point sink. With a unit 5 wide and a champion you only get 6 attacks…If you miss or fail to wound your going to be in rough shape with only a 5+ save.
Yup. GW really screwed over these kind of units. Look at Krox! Even with higher strength they still end up not being worth as much as solid blocks of saurus. And DE excecutioners, uughh. Such a brilliant unit and almost useless.
If you need some army comp scores Id use them otherwise flanking can be accomplished by ard hobgobz, another warrior unit, or better, BC/Wolfriders.
And DE excecutioners, uughh. Such a brilliant unit and almost useless.
You've clearly never played anyone who tools them properly :)
My m8 uses 21 Executioners (7x3) with an Assassin and a Cauldron. They killed my 20 Grave Guard with War Banner in 1 charge :) With the Cauldron they all go up to 2 attacks each, with hatred re-rolls. At S6 killing blow. Its horrible. They are also stubborn within 12". Really, they are awesome if you run a proper Khaine list. Without the Cauldron, yeah they are a bit pants, but they benefit from it the most out of all the troops in the list, which is as it should be. They just need the right set up to do well, people are still too used to using them MSU style in units of 10.
Executioners are a bad example becaue they can still be led by a hag bsb with the ASF banner. That banner negates the great weapons and allows them to hit pretty hard.
Executioners are a bad example becaue they can still be led by a hag bsb with the ASF banner. That banner negates the great weapons and allows them to hit pretty hard.
Time of Madness
If you know what you're doing you should be able to get the charge. I don't see how the hag makes them a bad example, they are perfectly good without her. The ASF banner is better for Black Guard.
Which makes them a bad examlpe (nobody takes them).
Plenty do, at least people that I know. They're just too cool. Black Guard may seem better (and usually are) until you fight someone like Ironbreakers :)
Lack of armour and low amount of attacks.
Hence the Cauldron and Assassin. The cauldron gives them bonus attacks, which they also re-roll on the first turn (an important difference when compared to CDs), meaning 75% of your (doubled) attacks hit even when you need 4s. The Assassin helps with the lack of armour simply by killing enemies first and stopping them fighting. Not to mention M5 means they have a decent chance of charging, CDs do not. They are far more viable than CDs with great weapons imo. They do require more support than most other DE units, but I reckon the end result is worth it.
But this is beside the point as the topic is about CDs with great weapons :)
