two_heads_talking:
I think we should probably just let it go, as this is going to skirt into a religious discussion and someone will get offended and then it’s on…
Kera foehunter:
well its pass Christmas!! religion discussion would be cool
i take Hindu for 200 please
Hashut’s Blessing:
If this changes to religious discussion I’ll have to lock the thread and insist you start a new one on such a topic as this is sort off-topic as is.
BilboBaggins:
OK Mister Mod Sir.
We’ll try and get it back on track.
OK, I’ve agreed to obey the new laws of speech in the GW store even though I feel they are idiotic and silly.
But it was fun pointing out the silliness to the staff member in a quiet store.
cornixt:
Oh, the irony of a thread about free speech being almost closed down!
BilboBaggins:
Oh, the irony of a thread about free speech being almost closed down!So true, so true.
cornixt
When I was in public school one of the teachers was allowed to use the Bible in his class because he was using it as an English and History text.
Helsreth:
For the sake of the previous question, we used “The Good News Bible” at my school.
I recall a discussion about Dark Eldar on 40k online some time ago, when I posted on there, that some parents did not want their kids to play Dark Eldar, because of the fluff. The whole soul stealing, and being sexual deviants.
On the note of sexual deviants and predators, look at the news, the news is full of that stuff, when I have children I would rather make them aware of the evils in the world so they can recognize them and avoid them. Same with swear words, if they hear a word, and do not know that is can be offensive then they will use it, if they are explained the word (in a pg context) then they will most likely not use it.
Kera foehunter:
we be good hb!! Sorry you had to drop your cake ,since you jumped so fast to stop a religious
topic!!!
BilboBaggins:
Well the group of what I call Super-Christians would object to all GW games because of the War Games idea.
Some groups hate Chess because it is really a war game.
But add Magic and they really go off.
Then the Gods of Chaos (as well as the other Gods in the game) get them peeved.
But should we be force to change or gaming because a close minded minority doesn’t like it?
I know the Warhammer community is in the minority in the country too.
But under the Freedom of Expression laws the close minded can protest war game and the player can still be allowed to play.
two_heads_talking:
Well the group of what I call Super-Christians would object to all GW games because of the War Games idea.Interestingly enough, I'd consider myself super religious/christian, and I have no issues with it, nor do I have any objections to discussing it with other christians. In fact, with some understanding and listening, you can actually explain it to them. If you hop up and down and tell them they are stupid for their ideals, well, you've become the same type of bigot you claim them to be.. (I am speaking generally, not to you directly Bilbo, so please don't take this as an anti-bilbo diatribe.. The simple fact is teh minority truely are those that play, not that object to it being played.
Some groups hate Chess because it is really a war game.
But add Magic and they really go off.
Then the Gods of Chaos (as well as the other Gods in the game) get them peeved.
But should we be force to change or gaming because a close minded minority doesn't like it?
I know the Warhammer community is in the minority in the country too.
But under the Freedom of Expression laws the close minded can protest war game and the player can still be allowed to play.
BilboBaggins
Not everyone will agree with what you do on your free time, but they can't stop you.. People think my owning a handgun and using it frequently is a bad thing. I don't. People also think eating meat is a bad thing, I don't. I hunt for my food and in the past grew alot of my vegetables, although I can't do that renting someone elses house.. People think Americans are just a bunch of closed-minded over-zealous, cocky sheltered unknowledgeable jerks. I don't. I suppose one could go to any country and find the lowest common denominator and call the country from that angle.
Playing a table-top war game is no different than playing Chess or playing video games. Each one can become an obsession. Each one has murder in it, and in a sense they all have their demons.
Anyways, I love the game, and the boyscouts in our church and many other churches love it too. One of the clubs I am in is sponsoring a game day to introduce many strategy, role play and tactical games to some scouts next Tuesday. If delivered in the proper 'spirit' the game won't offend anyone. I blame the players of the game, when someone else is offended. I blame the players when someone thinks the game is Satanic. I blame the players when someone thinks the game is anit-social. I blame the players, because like anything else, you only get one first impression and if you are that fat, not washed, foul mouthed, arrogant, disparaging, beligerant (perhaps not all but some of the above) smelly, dirty looking, raggedy, overbearing jerk at the game table, it's no wonder someone thinks the game is not right for their son or daughter..
cornixt:
I knew a Warhammer player who became a born again Christian. He didn’t stop playing (at least not in the 18 months I knew him), but he did switch from Chaos to Empire because he was uncomfortable with the daemons thing.
A religion is the embodiment of the adherents, and “Christian” means something different to everybody. If you live in one town then you may be more likely to be condemned for Warhammer than in the next town over. Same denomination, different people. There are some Anglican churches that are exactly the same as Roman Catholics in services and ceremonies, and some that are completely different. When you get into the different denominations and translations, then there is a huge variety of responses to the game.
Godbob and his jolly rogers:
Great a frienderly game of Warhammer “I going to cast ‘we all live happily’ on a 2+, wow I casted it now we don’t have to fight, Yay!”
BilboBaggins:
Great a frienderly game of Warhammer "I going to cast 'we all live happily' on a 2+, wow I casted it now we don't have to fight, Yay!"Just put the LOTR character Tom Bombidil (and Goldberry) on the board. Their rules in LOTR is no body within 12 inches can fight, be shot, affected my magic or be wounded in any way. He can also sing and heal wounds.
Godbob and his jolly rogers
I put them in a mega-battle at GW Franklin Mills once. Annoyed the evil side to no end. 24 inch area unable to be harmed. :)
I'm not offended by people with different views as long as they don't try to ram their views down my throat. They would find I would tend to fight back.
Kera foehunter:
im a heathen!!! so when you get tired of your warhammer stuff send it to me!!! !
Swissdictator:
Meh, it’s a game. My parents are older Catholics, they were teens in the 50’s etc. My dad doesn’t even blink at the idea that there are Demons, or other gods, etc in Warhammer. Why? It’s from our historical gaming background.
When I play WWII sometimes I play the Germans or the Soviets. Both were very evil regimes at the time, setting aside some folks were only fighting because they had a gun to their head. In essence, by playing the Germans I could be said to be playing the bad guys. I hate Nazism and Communism both… but I will play the Germans or Soviets in a wargame. Even in “theoretical” WWIII games, I will sometimes play the Soviets in a Soviets vs NATO scenario.
Does this mean I agree with their philosophies/actions/etc? No, not at all. Nobody would even claim that one. It just means I want to play from that angle of the scenario, nothing else. Maybe a bunch of folks wanted to play the other side, so I filled in for the Germans or Soviets. Maybe I just wanted to play against someone playing the other side (such as my Dad 
). Heck, maybe I just like the look of the tanks and that’s what is catching my interest at the moment. Heck, I’m an American and I love my country greatly and I’m proud of a lot (not all) our history… but sometimes I just love playing the British in a wargame set in the American Revolution!
Also I’m a student of history. If I study the Arabs, and Islam… or the Greeks and their beliefs, or the Vikings, or whomever… does that mean I will suddenly convert and be praising Oden? No, but I will understand why people did. It’s the same thing for wargaming in my eyes. If I watch a movie with Saladin that portrays him in a very positive light, does that mean I’m going to be more/less/different in religious attidudes? Nope, it’s just a movie that I’m enjoying.
If I’m playing the Romans, the Arabs, or the Mongols… who believe in a different deity or deities, does this mean I am of that faith? Nope. If I play ‘the other side’, does this mean I’m denouncing their faith? Nope. I just want to play that side at the moment, for whatever reason. I usually don’t even consider the religious aspect at all, except perhaps in fantasy. Where it might be fun to say “For Sigmar” or “Hashut bless my hammer!” or “Nurgle’s Rot be upon thee!”… not loudly, more when I roll dice for laughs. If I’m willing to play, the Ancient Egyptians whose beliefs I don’t follow… why can’t I play… say… the Dark Elves?
Somebody has to play the bad guys, be it in games or movies. They may be the anti-thesis of what the bad guy is… but it’s an interesting challenge… be in in the game or acting. It’s a reflection of reality. In reality, there are horrible forces… and evil forces. Denying them is like denying the moon orbits the Earth. By playing the “bad guys” (be it Germans in WWII or Nurgle Demons), I can allow the good guys (the Allies or the Empire or Brets) to be good guys. Plus there’s a lot of shades of gray: Where are the Tomb Kings? IS the Empire good, or just not that evil? What about Ogres? Orcs?
I do agree with two heads: If you make yourself presentable, that makes a huge difference. If you’re sitting laughing, poking fun at the Orcs saying “Meh, they’re a cheap unit” then people will probably laugh as they’ll think “Ah, like Pawns!”. If you’re presenting yourself as someone just wanting to paint figs, and have some fun with your buddies… then it’s no different then a poker night, bowling league, company baseball team, etc. It’s just fun with the friends.
BilboBaggins:
When I described Warhammer to my father the Deacon he was first intrigued when I told him it was like the WWII games he played in the 70’s. But when I toldhim about magic phaze his eyes rolled and I could just here him preparing a lecture, but since I was in my late 30’s at the time he held it.
Personally I gravitate toward Good Armies. In LOTR I played both good and evil because in the original rules you had to play both in tournaments.
Swissdictator:
The local priest is a military history fan like myself. Considering I’ve seen him at the Dark Knights, and he thinks the hobby is interesting, he’d probably appreciate some of the humor in it.
On an interesting note: Gen Con was first played out of a Church in Lake Geneva, WI
Kera foehunter:
just because they are men of the cloth ,does mean they can’t play games that are fun !!
they still are human!! There was a few minster and priest that belong to my dad Chess club
you never would know they where priest or minster
slev:
I’m also a Christian. The objectors a typically a very vocal minority. they are typically the “bad stereotype”, much like the more odious stereotype of games doesn’t really reflect reality too well.
In fact, I had some fundies set upon me in town once, due to me carrying gaming home. They where even more horrified when they discovered my denomination, and more horrified still when I applied their own logic to their arguments.
Ultimately, they are the munchkin rules lawyers of the religious world.