Discoking:
Hi Dwerrows.
I haven’t got Tamurkhan on me (shock horror).
But I just thought of something.
A Hellbound Warmachine has +1W & T…
In combat… Are there 4 dwarfs?
If not… Are there 3 dwarfs, & when the 3rd one dies it has no attacks?
Lol…
This is a product of being bored in work.
Thommy H:
"No one knows."
This is one of several instances where the rules in Tamurkhan don’t seem to have been adjusted for 8th Edition. “Wounds” and “Crew” are absolutely synonymous for war machines in 8th Edition, so there’s no mechanic for giving a war machine bonus Wounds except by adding crew models. I believe the intention of the Hellbound rule in the instance though is to just give the War Machine an extra Wound itself, which is lost before you start removing crew.
By RAW though, you should get another Chaos Dwarf crewman, yes.
Hashut’s Blessing:
See above.
Summary: RAW, +1 crewman. RA(we think)I, lose a wound before you lose any crew, but no bonus crew.
zhatan87:
In France, for warmachines, the +1 W is no use. It only works for the iron daemon. It’s RAW cause they don’t say that the warmachine gets a free crewman but +1 W, and it’s no use in 8Ed…
Poorly written…
Hashut’s Blessing:
Does the French translation not state that the crew are simply wound markers? Inany respect, you still have the +1W, you just remove that before the crew.
redcorsair:
The way I have heard it is that the +1W is no effect, now you cause fear and your shots are magical (goodbye VC ethereal spam list).
Hashut’s Blessing:
Where did you hear that, redcorsair? Ultimately, the rules state you get +1W, so you get +1W - nothing in the FAQ says otherwise. P.S. Joined us from the One Ring?
zhatan87:
The wound characteristic is no use in 8ed… The fact that it increases the wound characteristic by 1 is no use…
Does the French translation not state that the crew are simply wound markers?It does. But it also states that the wound characteristic doesn’t mean anything (only for referency).
Discoking:
That isn’t true…
As the High/Dark Elf Repeater Bot Throwers has 3 wounds on the profile;
But because it only has 2 crew, it actually has 2 wounds.
So by increasing the wound with Hellbound, you must get an extra crewman by default? Even if it doesn’t specifically specify…
Nicodemus:
I think we’re comparing apples and oranges here. All of the old Wound characteristics for warmachines from the older rulebooks that haven’t yet been updated are no longer valid beacuse of the 8th ED book and we now use crew models to indicate wounds and in many cases this has changed the number of “wounds” a warmachine could take (losing crew now instead of wounds).
But in any case I think some are making this more complicated than it needs to be. The spirit of the Hellbound rule is that the warmachine itself has become daemonic and is partly alive, hence the additional wound, but saying that you don’t get the wound because it doesn’t work in 8th ED is going too far. This is a case where the rulebook, which was released after 8th ED, should supercede the main rules, which says Warmachine don’t have Wounds. Hellbound gives the warmachine 1 Wound. I really don’t think you get an extra crew person though, not only is is against the spirit of what Hellbound is trying to do, you’re also extending the close combat abilities of the warmachine. Yes, you’re limited with now many crew can fight in close combat, but by adding another crew you’re going to be still able to fight back with that extra Wound at some point, which isn’t what the rule is meant to do.
I think it’s a very easy solution to just add +1W to the warmachine itself and take that off when the first Wound is suffered. No, it doesn’t explicitly state that such as thing is supposed to be done, but to say that the Hellbound special rule which is supposed to grant +1W in fact doesn’t add anything is also against the spirit of the rule.
Let’s just agree that it’s poorly written, and if you really don’t like it then don’t take it on your warmachines. Best we can hope for is an update to the FAQ I guess!
~N
Thommy H:
Yep. There’s actually no satisfactory way to resolve this at all. Either you give the war machine an independent Wound (for which no mechanic exists in 8th) or you add a crewman (which seems like something that should be specified). Alternatively, the +1 Wound thing doesn’t apply to war machines (which, again, should be pointed out in the rules).
It needs an FAQ, so you’ll need to agree with your opponent how you play it in the meantime.
redcorsair:
lol, way to make a first post, I guess. Sorry, super lurker here.
I agree that it needs clarification, but as the rules in the BRB read now, while technically it does add an extra wound to the machine, the only machine that gets a benefit from it is the Daemon. Extra wounds on a warmachine are moot as you use the wounds of the crew. Since it does not say anything about the crew, it is left to mire in the question of “well, does the machine come alive and have its own stats ala the Hellcannon” or does it add a crew or does it do nothing at all?
Hooray! Back where we started.
All I know is that around my area, we are playing that all it gives you is Fear and Magic Shots (nothing to scoff at, especially around here where there are a lot of VC players and a couple Lizards with ethereal Slann).
Though (train of thought here), you do get +1 Toughness as well. That is a huge boon, as all ranged shots against WM are against its toughness score. You also get that.
Again, the Iron Daemon gets a huge boost. Everyone else…its iffy, imo.
Ugly Green Trog:
The rules in the brb also state that they are general rules yet defer to the exceptions within individual army book so i would say you get an additional wound.
Thommy H:
Yes, but Wounds are crew members for model with the unit type “war machine”. Yes, it seems simple to resolve it, but that’s 7th Edition mechanics creeping in. If someone had never played Warhammer before 8th and just read the war machine rules in the rulebook, they wouldn’t understand how Hellbound worked.
House rule it by all means, but the RAW are objectively impossible to implement.