thewizardofoz:
I know this question will have a whole thread about it on here somewhere but I am accessing this from my hone at the moment and trying to locate things on my phone is a nightmare so thought it easier to just ask as I need a quick answer - playing a game tonight.
Can a Hellcannon pivot and fire or does the pivoting count as moving so stops it shooting?
It is a monster so any movement counts as moving but shoots as a stone thrower which can pivot and shoot so I see the argument for both sides but now that the FAQ section has disappeared from the GW site - I have no point of reference.
I have always played it that it cannot pivot so have had to set up in a corner to use the front arc for shooting but then played a warriors player the other day who spun round to shoot my general who was to the side of the hellcannon and he argued that it has the rules of a stone thrower so can pivot and shoot. As it was I was too close to shoot anyway, it didn’t affect the game but I need confirmation now.
Any help with evidence would be helpful
Slave to the first to help me.
MadHatter:
I don’t know the rules since I have yet to play my first 8th ed. game, but it seems the Hellcannon pivoting has been heavily debated. I found a thread which said:
"A Hellcannon is a monster that fires like stone thrower, no exceptions are mentioned. Stone throwers can pivot in the shooting phase, therefore hellcannons can to."
aswell as
"I’m pretty convinced by the “it’s not a war machine, so it can’t pivot” crowd. But every judge at every event I’ve ever been to has ruled it the other way. Which was pretty convenient when I was able to face it backwards to stop some gutter runners scouting behind my lines in Battle for the Pass and then pivot round to panic a unit turn 1"
thread is located here: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82089
Someone else probably knows better though.
Goodluck with your game!
MadHatter:
In Daemonsmith’s Handbook entry on Hellcannons http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12191 the user Godhead writes:
Bloodbeard:
Ask your opponent. I havn’t been able to find an exact answer. Both things can be argumented for. I play the hellcannon as it can’t pivot. It’s a monster - and shoots as a warmachine. It’s not a warmachine.
MadHatters last ost is the best answer I’ve seen.
thewizardofoz:
Ask your opponent. I havn't been able to find an exact answer. Both things can be argumented for. I play the hellcannon as it can't pivot. It's a monster - and shoots as a warmachine. It's not a warmachine.
MadHatters last ost is the best answer I've seen.
Bloodbeard
Thanx for all the help guys.
Onyx:
I’ve been doing some research on this topic as well.
Seems to me the answer is quite clear:
1.) War machines can pivot for free in the movement phase without affecting their ability to shoot. This has been stated several times now. The Hellcannon is not subject to this rule.
2.) The Hellcannon shoots like a stonethrower and has a ninety degree arc of vision (like everything else in 8th edition)
3.) When a stonethrower is shot it is pivoted on the spot to face the target
So this might imply you may shoot 360° - but this isn’t everything there is. It is also stated in the shooting section that a warmachine may only choose a target that is in it’s arc of view. Only then would you even start the process in which you will pivot on the spot to directly face your target.
So bottom line: You may only fire at a target that is in your arc of view without pivoting.
thewizardofoz:
I've been doing some research on this topic as well.
Seems to me the answer is quite clear:
1.) War machines can pivot for free in the movement phase without affecting their ability to shoot. This has been stated several times now. The Hellcannon is not subject to this rule.
2.) The Hellcannon shoots like a stonethrower and has a ninety degree arc of vision (like everything else in 8th edition)
3.) When a stonethrower is shot it is pivoted on the spot to face the target
So this might imply you may shoot 360° - but this isn't everything there is. It is also stated in the shooting section that a warmachine may only choose a target that is in it's arc of view. Only then would you even start the process in which you will pivot on the spot to directly face your target.
So bottom line: You may only fire at a target that is in your arc of view without pivoting.
Onyx
Right I get ya, so it can only shoot in the shooting phase at something it can see out of it's front arc. In order to see the thing behind it, it would need to move in its movement phase. Now in the shooting phase it can see the enemy in its front (FINE), it is allowed to pivot to see it directly (FINE) but unfortunately cannot shoot as it moved in the movement phase.
A very convincing argument and one I agree with completely. The problem is convincing somebody else in a game - tournaments are fine as you can check with the organiser first but friendly games, I can imagine that becomes more problematic.
You would think that considering the cost of the rule book, army book and the actual model together is over £100, GW would actually give some final rules clarification on this. If the gaming system was translated into English from another language, like the early rules for the Batman game, you could understand a few things getting lost along the way. Things like this just go to show how little consideration there is over play testing and editing.
Thank you Onyx. Have a slave.
Onyx:
In order to see the thing behind it, it would need to move in its movement phase.
thewizardofoz
Don't forget the Hellcannon is a large target when determining what you can see!