[Archive] HELP! I got destroyed Cd's vs. Tzeentch demons

Da Crusha:

I just got my ass handed to me, big time! I killed 4 pink horrors and he killed one of his own, for a grand total of 5 pink horrors dead. he had:

5 screamers

5 screamers

6 flamers

4 flamers

lord of change

flying herrold bsb with a crazy 100pt banner

20 P horrors

10 P horrors

10 P horrors

10 P horrors

my army was:

15 blunderbusses std chmp

14 blunderbusses std chmp

19 CD w H/S banner slavery Full Command

20 CD w Great weapon Full Command

26 hobgobbos naked

10 HG w/ lt armor/ S

10 HG w/ Bows

10 HG wolf riders naked

6 Bull centaurs great weapons H armor

4 BT

15 Black orcs Full Command

CD bsb

Sorc lvl 2 power stone and dispel scroll, lore shadow

cd Lord on taurus w/ G weapon and 1+ armor

The entire game, which only lasted 4 turns til everything I had was dead, prety much died from magic missles and flamer fire then the screamers would go over head and kill a bunch more guys, I charged a unit of 10 pink horrors in the 2nd turn with the taurus, I hit with all 4, good, then rolled four 1’s but one was cocked so I rerolled it, another 1! I said its to myself its ok I rolled for the Lord, 3 hits, and then… three 1’s again, we fled and luckily did not get caught. I got into one more combat the entire game w/ HG and needless to say they died. the rest of my army died just how it started… horribly.

He also plays a very powerful khorne army, with 5 units of bloodletters, a lord on juggy, a bsb w/ a banner that makes everything within 12 inches stubborn, on jugy and 2 more blood crushers and 3 or 4 units of 5 furies.

somebody please give me some suggestions. Ive come to the point that I don’t even like using Cd’s anymore. HelpMe!

Canix:

Nasty ,as he uses MSU tactics you should be making use of 100-200 naked hobbos in tens and twenties to swarm around his multiple units to control manouver and soak those magic misssiles up that should help:hat

Baggronor:

You must fight cheese with cheese:cheers

I would:

Bring the heavy magic; A sorcerer Lord and 2-3 Lv2s with a bunch of scrolls ought to give you the necessary dice pool to combat his arcane silliness. As Canix says, hordes of Hobgobs with the general in 12" plus the banner of slavery will make a nice, reliable screen of fodder, within which your sorcerers can hide and return fire.

All Bolt Throwers should be aimed squarely at the Lord of Change until he is an eagle kebab. Also, with a lot more magic of your own, you should be able to lay down some serious magic missile bombardment, and I would recommend targeting the flamers and screamers before the rest. Fire/Death magic should do the trick nicely.

Shadow magic can be fun too, (probably best if the Lord takes it so you get 4/6 spells) steed of shadows and unseen lurker can both allow your guys to catch his BSB/Lord of Change. Also, Earth Shakers will ground his Screamers and Lord of Change rather nicely, buying you more time to zap them to death.

A BC hero with Armour of the Furnace is a nice trap for his flamers: Charge 16" out of the unit at them and laugh at his stand and shoot and melee attacks that can’t hurt you :slight_smile: This also applies to all his other Tzeentch unit’s melee attacks, even the Lord of Change I believe.

Hope this helps somewhat. Don’t lose heart, the Daemons are veeeery tricky, particularly for a ravening hordes list, although CDs have some of the most powerful choices in the game. :slight_smile:

Godbob and his jolly rogers:

Oh you got hit by cheese!

Well as they are Tzeentch get into combat but not with the GD he can kill you even if he’s a sorcerer try and shoot the screamers down as there slashing attack can hurt

I haven’t tried the ‘Banner of Hellfire’ but a power leval 5,bound spell that causes D6 st6 hit’s on every enemy within 12" can hurt! And even getting into combat can’t help you

But as Baggronor said ‘you have to fight fire with fire’ use alot of magic to counter him

And finally shoot him down with all sorts of guns.Big guns,kills big things

Hope this helped :hat off

Willmark:

Special Choices: take nothing but bolt throwers and death rockets, with that much firepower you should nuke him until he glows.

Da Crusha:

The army that I brought against him was a trial army for an upcoming local tournament, so I tried to keep it pretty balanced. I didn’t think I would get that slaughtered though. although, I think against a not so shooty, magic missle heavy, fast army, I could do much better.

I’m definitely gonna change up that army though, its time to ask for help from hashut and blast him with my own magic, and tons of gobbo slaves too for magic missle fodder. I really like the Idea of the BC hero with the armour of the furnace, but flamers are pretty tough in HH, bolstering 2 attacks, 2 wounds, Strength of 5 Toughness of 4 and only 35 points! not to mention their very powerful flaming attacks.

Da Crusha:

How do you guys think I should combat his khorne army, since that will most likely be his tournament army?

Baggronor:

Khorne Daemons, ouch. The lack of a Bloodthirster can be a mixed blessing, as it means he has plenty of points to spend on units.

I would still go magic heavy, as he has no wizards and maximum 2 scrolls. Earthshakers are a must, to stop his infantry closing too fast. I would have 2-3 solid blocks of 25 CD warriors with shields and a BSB nearby (beware of killing blow)to engage the Bloodletters (preferably turn 4 at the earliest) and plenty of Hobgoblins to flank and misdirect with. Blunderbusses will make him cry (T3 expensive Bloodletters woohoo:)), especially if his units are slowed by the Earthshaker(s). Bolt Throwers/magic to take down the Crushers. Wolfboyz or BC hero to lurk around your war machines, ready to nab any Furies that try to get at your Earthshakers. Bull Centaurs are perfectly capable of taking down a small or depleted unit of Bloodletters, just don’t get stuck in HtH.

The key is to grind him down, but it will be hard going. Stack as much combat resolution as possible (Full ranks, War Banner, BSB etc) and get the flank charges. Also, you can divert his units with expendable hobgoblins. If his units are small you could even be cheeky and Hobgoblin conga line him, with the General’s LD10 and a BSB they may even hold.

Other tactics include:

Stop his boss fighting for a turn with the Black Gem of Gnar. Just remember whoever has it is probably gonna die next turn :slight_smile: but by then you will have flanked him if all goes well.

Sneaky Gits could work wonders against Bloodletters (T3 and only 1 attack each) but make sure its in the flank.

Wolfboyz with a BC hero are a decent threat to his flanks, particularly the crushers. The threat is more useful than their actual chances in HtH though, so manouevre and threaten him, be aggressive (or make it seem like you are :)). A unit like this can also march block nicely, as all he has to get rid of march blockers is Furies. March blocking + Earthshaker = veeeery slow moving enemy army.

Godbob and his jolly rogers:

With Khorn well…

First Bloodthristers are easy to kill I had mine kill on turn one by a cannon

The rest just think try and charge or go first in combat with T3 they die easly you could try magic but with all there MR it wont go far

And bloodcrushers if you get them first then they will run to CR but they are a hard buch try and soften them up with some guns then go in for the finally kill

Warning get rid of Flesh hounds quickly they are a real pain in the backside

And remenber if you want to kill Khorn just shoot them befor they get to you so shoot them up

:hat off

This_Is_My_Boomstick!!:

flamers, are the flamers attacks in cc flaming?, if so they can not touch the bc with furnace armour

The army that I brought against him was a trial army for an upcoming local tournament, so I tried to keep it pretty balanced. I didn’t think I would get that slaughtered though. although, I think against a not so shooty, magic missle heavy, fast army, I could do much better.

I’m definitely gonna change up that army though, its time to ask for help from hashut and blast him with my own magic, and tons of gobbo slaves too for magic missle fodder. I really like the Idea of the BC hero with the armour of the furnace, but flamers are pretty tough in HH, bolstering 2 attacks, 2 wounds, Strength of 5 Toughness of 4 and only 35 points! not to mention their very powerful flaming attacks.

Da Crusha

Da Crusha:

ok I’m gonna try those tactics, but I’m a bit weary about the furies, as far a shooting goes. typically he deploys them in front of his infantry blocks and then flies them right in front my shooters to block line of sight. by the time im done killing them I get charged by, just about the rest of his army. I haven’t gone magic heavy yet. I suppose that can kill a few units of furies while earthshakers slow the rest down. as far as all my Special choices go, I’m not really fond of death rockets. I consistently bring 4 units of bolt throwers and a unit of black orcs, their my fave!:slight_smile:

Da Crusha:

flamers, are the flamers attacks in cc flaming?, if so they can not touch the bc with furnace armour

This_Is_My_Boomstick!!
:oyes!! they are!!! thanks for helping me realize that.

This_Is_My_Boomstick!!:

give him a great weapon, all you need then is 1 wound on them to draw the combat, does not matter about striking last as he cant hurt you, then laugh at him

find out what else has flaming attacks like the flying herald and the loc - prob not the loc but you never know

Baggronor:

give him a great weapon, all you need then is 1 wound on them to draw the combat, does not matter about striking last as he cant hurt you, then laugh at him
If he has the Battle Standard he doesn't have to worry about being outnumbered. :)

Godbob and his jolly rogers:

Just a bit of advice

Don’t be scared DoC aren’t that hard to kill with a WS of 5+ for almost all units and there cost will mean that there units will be small just play it as any other battle and don’t hesatate

Da Crusha:

OK, I started writing the list last night against khorne. its gonna have a sorc lord on lammasu 2 power stones, black gem of gnar and talisman of protection, lore of shadow. a level 2 sorc with lore of fire and powerstone, and a level 1 with lore of fire. I decided on bringing 2 death rockets even though I dont really like them. I think they’ll make a pretty nice splat right on top of a bloodletter unit:). plus 2 earth shakers(for more splat:)) and I’m gonna use 2 units of 32 sneaky gits. thats all I have so far but I think ill be having lots of hobgoblins and a few units of cd warriors and blunderbusses, and banner of slavery.

I’ve never brought a list like this but I think it can work well, I chose the sorc lord to have the lore of shadows, because I think he can cast some pretty nasty spells like that one that affects everyone within 12" D6 S4 hits no armor save, or the pit of shades, and just be really mobile to deal with threats. I brought the sneaky gits with 8 frontage so that I can get as many attacks on his khorne bloodletter units as possible, his unit will have a frontage of 125mm and mine will have 160mm,just enough to maximize attacks! I thik most of my sorcery will be in the form of magic missles to kill his furies and that will keep my line of sight free. I’m a little bit worried about his chaos hounds though, he usually brings 2 units (I think I forgot to mention that earlier). hopefully I can march block them by parking my lammasu behind em and blast an earthshaker shell nearby to really slow them down. hopefully I don’t shoot my lord though:o

Im bringing the death rockets because they can potentially kill way more bloodletters than bolthrowers can.

I want my lord to have some better defense, but do you guys think its cheesy to bring a sorc lord with the “1+ armor save Magic item”, I know its not illegal RAW… do you guys think it would be tournament legal?

I want to bring a unit of black orcs because they are my beefiest units, but I can’t fit them in. what do you guys think?

Servius:

Actually giving the Sorcerer Lord Armour of Gazrakh is illegal… Its CLEARLY stated in the Rulebook. A character may NOT be given a magical armour unless that character is also able to carry its mundane equal… Last I checked Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers didnt have Armour stock or the option to take it so they couldnt take magical armour.

Death Rockets are good. They are basically stone throwers with no minimum range but are less likely to misfire as they have the Wildfire rule.

Personally, I dont like Black Orcs… due mainly to them being very expensive in an already expensive unit list… I much rather take their point and use them where you can make the best of the points, Namely warmachines of more hobbos.