[Archive] Help with list against Chaos

Archive [Archive] Chaos Dwarf Discussion
1

ryanamandaanna:

Hey guys-

I’m going to be honest and say that my strategy sucks. :wink: When you combine that with the fact that I have the natural ability to roll abysmally, I lose a lot of matches. I’m going up against a friend of mine this weekend in a 2250pt battle to help him prepare for GT in San Antonio. He’s a 10 year vet, so I’m pretty sure he’s going to mop the floor with me, but I want to at least give him a little challenge. All I know is that he’s using Chaos Warriors and he’s planning on going somewhat magic-heavy (a level 2 Nurgle and a level 4 Tzeentch Daemon Prince). I’m substituting some figures from this list, so feel free to recommend whatever, as he doesn’t mind that I’m using models that don’t look quite right. List help and strategy help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! :hat off

-Ryan

Chaos Dwarf - 2250 Points
Army total of 2243pts

Chaos Dwarf Lord
Great Taurus, Armour of the Furnace, Enchanted Shield, Black Hammer of Hashut
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 450pts

Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer
Level 2, Lore of Fire, Chalice of Darkness
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 150pts

Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer
Level 2, Lore of Metal, 2 dispel scrolls
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 150pts

Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer
Level 2, Lore of Death, Chalice of Darkness
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 150pts

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x 20
Heavy armour, shield, Champion, Standard, Banner of Slavery
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 250pts

Blunderbussers x 15
Heavy armour, Standard
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 190pts

Blunderbussers x 15
Heavy armour, Standard
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 190pts

Hobgoblins x 10
Animosity, Size Matters
Total unit cost: 20pts

Hobgoblins x 10
Animosity, Size Matters
Total unit cost: 20pts

Hobgoblins x 20
Animosity, Size Matters
Total unit cost: 40pts

Hobgoblins x 20
Animosity, Size Matters
Total unit cost: 40pts

Hobgoblins x 20
Animosity, Size Matters
Total unit cost: 40pts

Death Rocket x 2
Two Chaos Dwarfs, heavy armour,
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 160pts

Black Orcs x 10
Heavy Armour, shield, full cmd
Quell Animosity, Size Matters, Armed to da Teef
Total unit cost: 178pts

Bull Centaurs x 5
great weapon, heavy armour, shield
Slavemaster, Unmounted Cavalry
Total unit cost: 105pts

Earthshaker
Three Chaos Dwarfs, heavy armour,
Unyielding, Slavemaster
Total unit cost: 110pts

2

Grotsnik:

perhaps give your lord the talisman of obsidian and at least one of your sorcerers two dispel scrolls

3

Ancre:

I think you can’t get two chalice of darkness. It’ll free you points for other things - take that chaos dwarf unit to 25 ?

4

Ubertechie:

Can you please edit your post and remove the stats as that is in breach of GW;s IP policy

5

warh:

nice avatar!

why standard in BB unit?

6

ryanamandaanna:

Sorry about the stats; I didn’t realize we couldn’t do that… :o

I figured the standards with the BBs would help when they get in hand to hand… is that not a good idea?

Does anyone else know if you’re only allowed only one of a particular arcane item in an army?

Thanks for all the help so far… :cheers

7

Grotsnik:

i think you can hace multiple common magic items but only oneof army specific ones

8

BilboBaggins:

The only magic items that I believe you can have multiples of are Dispel Scolls and Power Stones.

---------------

Since Chaos Warriors are great in combat an have to get to you to kill you.

I personally like your hero choices (I go 3 magic casters but I’m nuts.)

I’d go:

Heroes (I said I’m Magic Heavy)

Sorcerer Lord (Shadows) - General - Talisman of Protection, Scroll, Black Hammer of Hashut - 310

Sorcerer (Fire) - Scroll, Sword of Battle - 150

Sorcerer (Metal) - Scroll, Sword of Might - 145

Core

20 Warriors - Hand Weapon Shield - Champion and Banner of Slavery - 250

20 Warriors - Hand Weapon Shield - Champion and War Banner - 225

21 Blunderbuss - 252

21 Blunderbuss - 252

10 Hobgoblin Bow - 50

10 Hobgoblin Bow - 50

10 Hobgoblin Bow - 50

25 Hobgoblins - Handweapon Shield - Champion and Banner - 120

Special

Bolt Thrower - 30 2 for 1 choice

Bolt Thrower - 30

27 Sneaky Gits - Champion

Death Rocket - 80

Rare

Earthshaker - 110

Now setup

Place the hobgoblin archers first in the front of the deployment zone as 1 rank 10 wide. (maximize shots) Make gaps so Sorcerers in the units behind will have lines of site.

Place Warrior unit with banner of slavery behind the center archers flank with other warriors and blunderbusses (all behind the archers)

Place hobgobs and sneaky gits on the flanks (they are to flank units)

Warmachines anywhere that will maximize their line of site. Earth Shaker HAS TO SHOOT EVERY TURN.

Like this:



Play

Move everything forward to shoot archers each turn. You are trying to get the Chaos warriors in range of the blunderbusses. Animosity can hurt the plans, When you finally get the chaos warriors in range of the Blunderbuss get those hobgoblins out of the way and OPEN FIRE.

Plus Remember this when playing.

9

Baggronor:

I should imagine he is using the ‘Gateway Spam’ list, quite a common build at tournies at the moment. Expect a Lv4 Tzeentch Daemon Prince, and 2 or 3 lvl2s, one with the Infernal Puppet (add or subtract D3 from anyones miscast results). Also likely choices are twin hellcannons and multiple units of Chaos Knights.

I am going to suggest something radical: don’t take too much magic. The Puppet makes miscasts pretty darn safe for him, and pretty damn dangerous for you. He never dies on a double 1, and can pretty much count on one of the safer rolls, while the opposite is true for you. The Daemon Prince will have tendrils of Tzeentch, allowing him to re-roll casting dice anyways. I would take 3-4 scrolls but don’t cast on more than 2 dice.

As Grotsnik says, Talisman of Obsidian will be extremely cool for your lord, if you decide to take him, as he will likely be the primary target for Infernal Gateway. Just keep out of sight of the Hellcannons and you will have free reign. Aim to get flank charges, force him to respond to you.

Take plenty of Bolt throwers to bring down his Daemon Prince. Bear in mind Infernal Gateway does not require line of sight, so try to draw him away from terrain that he could hide in by deploying your expensive stuff far from it, then shoot him in the face when he pops out :slight_smile:

Earthshakers to slow him and stop the Hellcannons firing. Bull Centaurs will be outclassed in this game, I would say the Earthshakers are a safer bet.

Massed ranks of Hobgoblins with a Ld10 general and BSB to keep them there. Nothing annoys Chaos Knights like cheap fodder that doesn’t run. Maybe some archers too.

2 blocks of 25 CD warriors with shields to receive the charges from the Chaos Knights (after you shoot 1-2 down to even up the odds).

Wolf Riders with a Bull Centaur Hero to outflank him and intercept any horsemen coming for your artillery. Bull Centaur heroes are generally worth it because of the 4 attacks that they can deliver and toughness 5. They are ideally suited to smacking Chaos Knights with a great weapon, so maybe have more than 1 :slight_smile:

10

ryanamandaanna:

Wow, that’s some great advice. You’re pretty well spot on with the daemon prince explanation that you gave, as that’s how he explained it to me (though I couldn’t quite remember it :wink: ) I know for certain that he has no hellcannons, however. I’m gonna have to sit and stew on this and post a new list…

Awesome stuff! :smiley:

11

ryanamandaanna:

I reworked it with some of the suggestions… better?

Chaos Dwarf - 2250 Points

Army total of 2249pts

Chaos Dwarf Lord

great weapon, heavy armour, shield, Great Taurus, Talisman of Obsidian

Total unit cost: 465pts

Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer

Level 2, Lore of Fire, Chalice of Darkness

Total unit cost: 150pts

Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer

Level 2, Lore of Metal, 2 dispel scrolls

Total unit cost: 150pts

Bull Centaur Hero

great weapon, heavy armour

Total unit cost: 108pts

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x 15

Heavy armour, shield, Standard, Banner of Slavery

Total unit cost: 195pts

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x 15

Heavy armour, shield

Total unit cost: 135pts

Blunderbussers x 12

Heavy armour

Total unit cost: 144pts

Blunderbussers x 12

Heavy armour

Total unit cost: 144pts

Hobgoblins x 10

Total unit cost: 20pts

Hobgoblins x 10

Total unit cost: 20pts

Hobgoblins x 14

Total unit cost: 28pts

Hobgoblin Wolfriders x 10

Total unit cost: 110pts

Bolt Thrower x 2

Two Hobgoblin crew

Total unit cost: 60pts

Death Rocket x 2

Two Chaos Dwarfs, heavy armour

Total unit cost: 160pts

Black Orcs x 10

Heavy Armour, shield

Total unit cost: 140pts

Earthshaker x 2

Three Chaos Dwarfs, heavy armour

Total unit cost: 220pts

12

Beastybeastbeats:

Black Orcs x 10
Heavy Armour, shield
Total unit cost: 140pts

ryanamandaanna
IMO-
Black Orc- drop 3 or 4, drop it to a 6x1 lots less points for almost the same job use the points to either get some hobo archers or just something else! Black Orc are fantasic but use the Hobos for Rank and out numbering bonuses. BO's arn't strong enough to take a charge and they are to slow to aggressively use as front line chargers. I love Black Orcs as a hammer unit, Hobos near a general make great charge receivers when u have enough, and if they bolt a unit of 50 is only 100 pts! (not that i condone 50 hobo's in a unit)

Hobo's- U have a lot of units as screens, but they also make great anvils (minus the leadership) and they are DIRT cheap. A unit of 30 is 5x6- even if use loose the front row you still get max Rank CR and will probably still outnumber ur charger.

I Love CDW and I love blunderbusses! BUT 3 hobo archers > a 12 blunderbuss. Units of 15 CDW imo are bad (large scale games) They dont have enough to win with CR and they dont have attack power to win off kills. Make 1 grp of 20 or more and get some more HOBOS! or max out ur blunderblusses 5x3 > 5x2.5. The extra 36 pts means untouched they have str 5 instead of str 4 big deal against a block of warriors!

Remember One unit of 20 warriors is the point cost as 2.5 units of fully geared hobo's! Are slaves are great!
13

BilboBaggins:

It could work.

You appear to be relying on warmachines to do the damage. Problem is that the ones you are relying on are inaccurate stone thrower types. You will really have to rely on slowing the army down and you getting a chance to charge.

I find blunderbuss are better in bigger units 15-21. That way you gain the S bonus for ranks (+2).

Death rockets can be scary for your opponent but not accurate enough for me to take 2 at that point level (4 BT’s would be better and cheaper on points). I guess that 3 inch templet doesn’t like me.

2 Earth Shakers. OK, it’ll slow their advance, but I take one and force my opponent to advance only part of his line and hope the others will catch up to support or hold the whole army to keep the units supporting each other. Most of the time my Earth Shaker kills only 2-3 models a GAME. I dislike scatter. :frowning:

Where are the cheap missile troops, 10 Hobgob archers are 50 points. I personally don’t go to war without 2 units of them.

14

Baggronor:

First off, the CD warrior block(s) need to be 20 minimum. They have low damage output, but are very tough and quite cheap so static combat resolution is their game. You really want +3 ranks and outnumber when the melee starts. Also get full command and a war banner in there, these guys should be walking fortresses of static combat res :slight_smile:

Bump up the Blunderbusses, at the moment they lose a point of strength as soon as they take one casualty.

As Bilbo says, the low accuracy of Death Rockets makes them unreliable, particularly against the targets you will be up against (apart from the guy under the hole, cavalry and monsters will only be taking partial hits most of the time). Chaos Armies are also pretty fast and you don’t want to be firing them things anywhere near your guys :slight_smile: I would prefer 4 Bolt Throwers and 2 Earth Shakers. Aim to even up the odds with shooting and fight him piecemeal.

Concerning Black Orcs, unless you have the points to get an 14-18 strong unit in a wide formation (for serious bottom kicking), I wouldn’t bother, they will give away victory points too easily. Your game here is to chip away at him with shooting and let him bounce off your static combat resolution, get flank charges etc.

Drop the Chalice, it is only good if you have more dice than him (as it reduces both players pools), and that looks unlikely. Take a third scroll and save some points.

Ultimately, I would try and get as many troops as possible to soak up the magic missiles and minimise their impact. Keep a strong core of Chaos Dwarfs units (3-4) then have plenty of fodder. Soak up his magic and outlast him in true Dwarf fashion :slight_smile:

15

Baggronor:

Perhaps try something along the lines of:

Chaos Dwarf Lord

+Talisman of Obsidian +Great Taurus

+Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield                                   465

Chaos Dwarf Hero (General)

+Great Weapon   +Armour of Gazrakh                                   94

Stick him in the middle to get maximum Ld10

Bull Centaur Hero

+Battle Standard

+Black Hammer of Hashut                                                    175

Lurk/ride with the wolves

Sorcerer

+2 Scrolls                                                                          115

25 Chaos Dwarf Warriors

+Shields            +Full Command           +War Banner              275

25 Chaos Dwarf Warriors

+Shields            +Full Command           +Banner of Slavery     300

15 Blunderbussmen                                                             180

25 Hobgoblins                                                                     50

20 Hobgoblins                                                                     40

10 Archers                                                                          50

10 Archers                                                                          50

March archers up the front and they can double as bait units

10 Wolf Riders                                                                     110

4 Bolt Throwers                                                                   120

2 Earth Shakers                                                                   220

                                                                                        2244

Just something I knocked together quickly.

16

Beastybeastbeats:

I like that list a lot better

17

BilboBaggins:

No magical defense but cool. I’d ditch one Earthshaker and fiddle with units to get second unit of blunderbuss.

18

Kera foehunter:

Need more pirates !!!

19

Baggronor:

Need more pirates !!!!
Feel my zombie ninja blades, pirate scum!! :)
20

BilboBaggins:

Need more pirates !!!!

Kera foehunter
All armies need more pirates.