Grimstonefire:
How many points do you think a herald of khorne should be worth on foot, without any gifts or icon, and if the locus of khorne had never been invented?
I’m trying to gather feedback on this as the values I’m getting from people range from 85pts to 200! :o
nitroglysarine:
this might not help but i have a really old rule book from WFB and i’m sure he’s listed…
…i’ll check.
Gar Shadowfame:
Herald is 100pts in the book, without locust of khorne its 85.
Hate it gives to the weakest core demons isnt worth more than 15 pts.
Lord Archaon:
It depends on which type of army do you use. If Tzeench + Khorne then the Herald is useless. If pure Khorne, then you should take it at 2000 pts to help your bloodthrister and herald on the juggernaught.
snowblizz:
Heh. Yeah I saw the thread on TWF. Shooting from the hip I’d say 125 points base. It is comparable to the Exalted hero in WoC, but has several goodies that he has not while it lacks some aspects.
Baggronor:
100pts without hatred.
I don’t see what purpose this sort of thread serves though, its 100pts in the army book and that’s that, the whole point of army books is to give everyone a set of consistent rules to play by, regardless of whether they agree or not.
Grimstonefire:
100pts without hatred.So seeing as he has hatred (general) in his core rules, what would price him at then? 120 maybe?
I don't see what purpose this sort of thread serves though, its 100pts in the army book and that's that, the whole point of army books is to give everyone a set of consistent rules to play by, regardless of whether they agree or not.
Baggronor
Gar Shadowfame:
whuh rebalancing DoC by changing point values is, tricky, no single person can predict possible playable combinations in reasonable time.
My oppinion on DoC handicap is to increase cost of all demons by 15%.
Core deamons to 15 per model, specials similarly, this should prevent overtunning that is biggest game breaking factor.
This is the best solution as changing any single aspect would only affect some armies, (like changing the way deamons roll for break to 6ed, or cutting down tzeench magic ) .
I don’t see what purpose this sort of thread serves though, its 100pts in the army book and that’s that, the whole point of army books is to give everyone a set of consistent rules to play by, regardless of whether they agree or not.Do you play DoC? 'cos its biggest shit GW ever served to players, totaly broken and imbalanced army.
Grimstonefire:
I actually started off thinking the 15% thing as well, but having spent the last few weeks pouring over the list in minute detail I think that an increase of around 10-15% overall is better than a 15% increase on every daemon.
When you say ‘I need to find places to split down 200 pts amongst the more powerful or underpriced elements’ it’s much easier to see the breakdown of where this can go (30 pts here, 10 there etc, it all adds up).
The other approach of course it to simply make things worth the points they are, which wouldn’t decrease the model count as much as a 15% rise on all daemons.
Gar Shadowfame:
Grim, you do know that multiplication and sum is interchangeable.
So 15% to total unit cost increase=15% increase of any element?
And you cant expect to balance daemons by not letting players to tune their roosters. You have to change the frames they are working in.
Grimstonefire:
I know that 
But increasing all things by 15% is not great for internal balancing when some things could be fairly priced (or over priced) at the moment. By targetting specific things it will still reach 15% without applying it to things that don’t need it.
Gar Shadowfame:
I know that ;) But increasing all things by 15% is not great for internal balancing when some things could be fairly priced (or over priced) at the moment. By targetting specific things it will still reach 15% without applying it to things that don't need it.There is nothing overpriced in DoC book atm. Everything up by 15% improves balancing 'cos you simply cant pop all the best units in best numbers.
Grimstonefire
Baggronor:
All they need is:
The ward save should be negated by magic attacks. This would help an awful lot, and is consistent with WEs.
They should pop if they roll over their Ld. Its not like they lose combat often and they always have a BSB.
Do you play DoC? 'cos its biggest shit GW ever served to players, totaly broken and imbalanced army.I’m a tourney player, so yeah I play against them. They are dirty, but them’s the rules. Better to think of ways to beat them than write alternate rules that can’t be used outside your gaming circle.
Everything up by 15% improves balancing 'cos you simply cant pop all the best units in best numbers.Yes, but some things in the list are costed about right. I think points changes should be on a case by case basis. The rank and file is fine. Flesh Hounds points are a joke. Most of the Greater Daemons are underpriced.
So seeing as he has hatred (general) in his core rules, what would price him at then? 120 maybe?125pts for Khorne Heralds as they are now.
Grimstonefire:
Remembering that I wanted the cost without the locus rule, I consider him worth around 130, so we pretty much agree.
My feeling for Slaanesh herald is around 110.