I’d like to flesh out the role of Hobgoblins in a Legion of Azgorh army list. I love my copy of Tamurkhan, but have found very little in the way of discussions regarding the use (or lack) of Hobgoblins in LOA lists. I’ve placed a few key points of note regarding Hobgoblins below to kick things off:
1. Hobgoblin Cutthroats (HC’s) count towards Core points. This factor is huge as I believe Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard units lack efficiency from a points perspective compared to other army lists’ core units. HC’s can fill Core points requirements without eating up too many points.
2. HC’s may be armed (and, as a result, used) in different configurations. This point gives us more tactical choices when considering the types of army lists HC’s may be fit in.
3. Animosity. No surprises here. Although options exist which may mitigate this drawback, this special rule still requires consideration.
4. Given the lack of models (aside from OOP minis), how great a factor is cost (monetary, not game points) when considering the use of Hobgoblins in a LOA army?
While I am mainly interested in the use of HC’s as a Core option, I’d love to see discussions regarding the other Hobgoblin choices in a LOA army.
Cutthroats are equally inefficient though because they come with light armour - they’re too weak to do much damage to anything but other meatshields, and too expensive to make an efficient meatshield themselves. I’m not sure what their utility is intended to be.
I can see a use for them as archers (handy to knock a wound or two off monsters, pick off weapon teams and Manglers, etc), and to top up Core requirements. With augment spells, they could even do significant damage.
2. I don’t see the ranked infantry as worthwhile at 4-5pts each. They won’t kill anything and the army already has issues with the troops’ killing power. They are too expensive to be a tarpit and as an elite army we simply cannot afford to spend points on any fighting unit that doesn’t kick butt imo. Massive units of slaves do look great though.
3. They should always be within 6" of IG, or if not, at the very least within 12" of the General and/or BSB (which can be better as they are likely to pass Panic tests but could still roll Bloody Murderers). I don’t see a situation where this can’t be done really.
4. Its a problem. Skaven seem to offer the best choices, with most people using Stormvermin or Plague Monks with Goblin/Gnoblar heads. Cruising eBay for OOP metals is expensive, the archers seem to be particularly rare. Heresy do a nice range of Goblin Archers, which are tall enough to be Hobgobs.
Wolf Raiders are total guff imo. Having to randomly take Panic tests on already shaky Ld is not helpful for a unit that is tasked to regularly be outside the General’s Ld bubble. On top of that they are Rare (which puts them in competition with the big guns and Destroyer) and you can only take a maximum of 2 units in under 3k. Not marvellous. Fluff-wise great, but in terms of competitive use - I’d never take them over a lone Khan. They do look cool though, still trying to get hold of a unit…
I’m yet to try my CDs’ skills, so I won’t be commenting on the first 3 questions. Modelswise, when i was looking for suitable models online to be used as hobgoblins, i found this Orc Warband.
I’m waiting for Maelstrom’s next sale to get one box, so no comments on the scale or quality. but i read some nice reviews, and ~0.60 GBP/model is just sweet.
I use hobgoblins to fill my core allocation; at 2000 points, a unit of 20 with bows. Chaos dwarf core is not the best, and should be kept at the minimum you need.
I always keep mine within 6" of an IG unit if possible, so they don’t suffer animosity; they are also useful for countercharging into the flank, thus negating ranks and steadfast, even if they don’t actually kill anything.
I use battle for skull pass night goblins. They aren’t brilliant, but they do the trick.
I take 2 units of bare HG with a musician. I use them on the mid flanks to negate scout drops & gain a couple of deployment steps. I also use them to protect the warmachines from the fast cavalry.
And I find them great at pulling out frenzied troops fro their formation. Someone on CDO (forgot who sorry) used 2 wide x 5 hobgoblins in the Ravening Hordes, & I’m doing the same with LOA. Here, Frenzied Chosen… fetch
Sadly, the only rant I have about the Hobgoblins is the fact that the wolf riders are Rare & not Core.
Have tried with shield only, and shield+bow (not tried with additionnal hand weapon, seems to be useless for 2AS3 models…)
Hobgobs with shield only aren’t really good : 4,5 pts, not so cheap, and need to be 30+ to hold something well.
Plus as said before, the list doesn’t need hobgobs units to hold : the castellan is already stubborn, you can fit the crown of command.
With shield and bow, the unit (I played them by 25+) is great : armour save 5+, parry, and some shots (20, then reformation with musician) help a lot : you already have lots of templates to kill troops, but not so many things (fire lore, expensive fireglaives) to deal with light cavalry or light monsters (eagle, …)
Such a unit can make both holding damaged units (by magma cannons for example) and removing light units with their bows.
I’m starting to think that 2 twenty man units of HC’s with bows and shields is a great “standard” configuration for CD armies. I’ve also seen several players comment on the effectiveness of using two HC Khans as intercept/misdirect units. Although I have not personally tried them out, I will be play-testing them shortly.
4. Given the lack of models (aside from OOP minis), how great a factor is cost (monetary, not game points) when considering the use of Hobgoblins in a LOA army?
Digital Ruin
I use gnoblars. They're really cool for my O&G army, for my OK army and for my CD army. I totally love their wackiness!
Am I missing something? I don’t see where it says you can take Hobgobs or wolf raiders. The Legion of Azgorh limits the units you are able to use. No bulls, no hobgobs, no k’daai’s, no ironsworns, and you can only take a infernal guards if you take at demonsmith. The IG have to be special as well. These are strict limitations that I don’t see a way around unless you want to use the unruly mob that might kill your own characters. Great fun, but terrifying if you intend on winning.
If there is a way to get hobgobs or hobs on wolves in the legion of Azgorh then please tell me. I would love to have some shooty along side my Warriors.
The Red Box on the right side of the page. “Using Chaos Dwarf Units in Warriors of chaos Armies.” Then it goes on to specify what units you can use in your warriors of chaos army and the limitations. I think I’m way off ,but it is strange that this red box I’m referring to is directly under the Title of the page "The legion of Azgorh"
So I thought that The legion of Azgorh was when you used Chaos dwarf units in a Warriors army. You just had to use these rules. Am I the only one that got confused by this? So the Legion of Azgorh is just a chaos dwarf list? Really bad spot for the Red Box I’m referring to.
Edit- I probably would of understood if I had read the fluff ,but I just got the book yesterday so I’m a lil behind.
yep, the Legion of Azgorh is the CD only list, but you can use parts of it for Warriors of Chaos. So if you intend to use it with WOC, you are correct–no hobgobs or k’daai, etc; but for a CD-only army, you can use everything.
In fairness, the rules are sort of all over the place (I mean that literally) and there’s an awful lot of needless repetition - for example, the special rules for the main Chaos Dwarf units appear both on their Bestiary pages and are reiterated for no reason I can discern a few pages later before the Army List. And the Chaos Siege Giant gets detailed rules and background in the Chaos Bestiary…which are then repeated almost verbatim for its Scroll of Binding at the end. And it has an Army List entry in the Legion of Azgorh too. How many times do we need to be told this stuff? And the LoA has little box outs to say some things are Rare choices for WoC when this is explained elsewhere anyway, plus the completely inane stuff about the same units counting as Rare for the LoA…yeah, I can see that, it’s in the Rare section of the LoA list. I can see why it would cause confusion.
For the record though, we generally use the term “Legion of Azgorh” around here for the simple reason that the Chaos Dwarf list in Tamurkhan doesn’t cover all the historical options that Chaos Dwarfs had access to, and there are still diehards who prefer to use something else for whatever reason. So, officially speaking, we still consider it just one of several variant lists for Chaos Dwarfs. The book goes out of its way to support this conclusion too by explicitly stating that its list doesn’t encompass everything the Chaos Dwarf race can bring to bear, and represents just one small faction of the Dawi’Zharr. I think Alan Bligh said in an interview too that Tamurkhan doesn’t render older Chaos Dwarf lists moot and they intentionally made it that way, but you obviously can represent a more “generic” Chaos Dwarf army with the units available.
Being an hobogblin lover for fluff reasons I’m probably partial but I think hobgobbos can have a role in the LoA list.
I normally field one unit of 30 hobgoblins with banner, musician and shield and anotehr unit of 30 hobgoblins with banner, musician and bow.
So far they performed pretty well, they cover part of the battle field and are able to hold the flank of my lone Chaos Dwarfs unit. Being always within the BSB and Lord bubble and normally retaining steadfast they can hold many charges and give time to my hammers to react.
The bowmen are able to provide a decent shooting against light cavalry, warmachines and light stuff on the battle field.
Do not expect miracles from them (even tought when they happens it’s always fun to see elite die to hobgoblins ).
I actually think the bowmen are better point wise as they fill up two different roles.
I tried wolfriders only once, they have a lot of defects but performed ok. I had some spare points so I picked them naked for a nice 60 point throwaway unit. Next to bull centaurs I had not may problems with animosity and the enemy had to take in consideration this 60 point unit and that was enough for me. But I do not think it’s easy for them to find place in a real competitive list.
So probably the bowmen are the better.
Modelling wise there are plenty of options I converted night goblins from many eras and used even old 4th edition plastic archers… you can search for my army blog somewhere in the army section…
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