[Archive] HoC as CDs

Thane Godri GoblinSlayer:

Do you think Hordes of Chaos would work as chaos dwarfs.  

  Here would be a list


Chaos lord/ chaos dwarf lord, if mounted, BC lord

Chaos sorcerer/chaos dwarf sorcerer

Daemon Prince/ DaemonPrince of Hashut


Chaos Champion/chaos dwarf hero, if mounted BC hero

Chaos sorcerer/ chaos dwarf sorcerer


Warriors: Chaos dwarf warriors, if chosen they are immortals.

Marauders: hobgoblins.

Warhounds: hobgoblin wolf packs


Marauder Horsemen: Hobgoblin Wolfriders

Chariots: tenderiser

Knights: Bull centaurs


Hellcannon: same

Spawn: Uknown, probably some arcane machine.  

Chaos Giant: Kollosuss

Hashut’s Blessing:

I think it would, but you’d have to create some sort of platform shoes or steam/daemon-enhanced boots that made them all M4 or restrict their movement whilst playing, otherwise it’d seem silly. Spawn can be unstable daemonic constructs or something. Maybe mini-kollosi? Also, if you mount the sorcerers, you could model them to be striding forward on an Astragoth-esque machine… Some of the marauders could be the other GSs in the CD army and you could use DoW cannons as death rockets/bolt throwers.

Thane Godri GoblinSlayer:

I’d just restric movement like regular dwarfs.


you can even use CD lord mounted on great taurus as an chaos lord riding a dragon, same goes for the cd lord sorcer on a lammasu only then it will be an chaos sorcerer on dragon :slight_smile:


This has been discussed several times please do a search.

Thommy H:

a lammasu only then it will be an chaos sorcerer on dragon
Which isn't actually an option in the new Warriors of Chaos list. Just one of many reasons that the army isn't a very good option for counts-as Chaos Dwarfs. The truth is that there is no "legal" army that fits the Chaos Dwarfs without removing a lot of the elements of the army (for example, if you just drop the greenskins and monsters it's pretty easy to use the normal Dwarf list).

Hashut’s Blessing:

Why do people actually use the WD list? Why not use the original HoC list without Daemons if you really want to go without daemons? Why break your list? As Willmark said, this topic HAS been brought several dozen times, nothing new has come up in this thread, which I hoped it might. Have a quick search for the other ones and then, if you can think of something new, bring it up here.

Thommy H:

Why break your list?
Actually, my fledgling Chaos Warrior army works out cheaper with the new list and is largely unaffected by the rules change. It probably helps that it's a really basic army, and if I was playing Tzeentch with a load of Champions and Daemons I'd probably be more upset.

Besides which, after being used to playing Chaos Dwarfs with two pages of eight-year-old rules, the new Warriors of Chaos list feels pretty flexible.


Tell me about it I played my first game against Wood elves. Nothing could have shown the disparity between new rules and a new army book and our list.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Well, I don’t quite understand how it works out cheaper, but I don’t get why you want to have what could be core units used as specials or rare… Nor why you’d wish to remove a lot of magic items etc etc. I use a HoC army without daemons anyway, so it’s purely downsides to me from what I know of the make-do list. Yes, CDs list isn’t perfect, but I don’t want to bring upon myself a second list that isn’t, IMO, complete when I don’t have to.


I don’t think anyone at our gaming club actually uses the WD HoC list, even for the lists that don’t have any Daemons in them.

Everyone seems to be happy to wait for the proper book to come out.

Thommy H:

Well, I don't quite understand how it works out cheaper
Warriors are a couple of points less each.
but I don't get why you want to have what could be core units used as specials or rare... Nor why you'd wish to remove a lot of magic items etc etc. I use a HoC army without daemons anyway, so it's purely downsides to me from what I know of the make-do list.
If you're not going to use the list, why not include Daemons then? We all have a choice when we play games: to go with the current legal versions of the armies, or to do what our opponents will let us get away with if, for example, we think the newer list is weaker, or removes certain options. I wouldn't begrudge anyone sticking with the old army - the same way I wouldn't begrudge anyone playing 5th Edition Warhammer, or Rogue Trader, or Epic 40,000 rather than Epic: Armageddon (I include this example because it applies to me...), but, similarly, those of us who chose to use the newer, maybe weaker, versions don't have to justify it either.

Yeah, it's an arguably weaker list with less options, but I don't really care. I don't play competitively (hey, I've got 3,000+ points of Chaos Dwarfs - you don't collect them to win games!) and I actually enjoy rejigging my army to fit new lists. Since I just play Khorne Chaos Warriors, it barely made a difference to me anyway.

Anyway, whichever list you chose to use, neither fits Chaos Dwarfs very well.

Lord Zarkov:

Also the Daemon Prince is rather sick

OK he’s more expensive, only Ld8 and -1I,

But he now doesn’t go pop, is stubborn, M8 and (unlike the DoC one) can now join every unit in the army.

And at M8 he can keep up with anything in the army (he’s faster than knights) and bestows stubborn onto any unit he joins (as per 7th Ed stubborn rules).

Interestingly he retains the abilities from his HoC incarnation (that the DoC one lacks) of causing Terror, Being up to a L4 caster, and having (cheaper) marks that actually do something.

I find it rather amusing though that the larger (US4) DoC Daemon Prince only causes fear wheras the smaller (US3) WoC one still causes terror. Although the Chaos Lords having a higher leadership than either is a little silly.

And the fact that daemon princes can now run away, priceless… (although useful in game terms)

Thommy H:

can now join every unit in the army
Not mine - he's on a big scenic base of flaming skulls :D

Not that I can even use him yet. I need a couple of hundred extra points to bring it up to 2,000 (including a Hellcannon borrowed from the Dawi'Zharr).

Hashut’s Blessing:

I didn’t know they were cheaper. I don’t use the daemons because I never have :smiley: Still, as mentioned above (and in a bid to return on topic), I don’t think they fit the list that well anyway. It would remove the artillery options for one. the blunderbusses for another etc etc. It removes the uniqueness of the army. If you wish to do it, go ahead. it is of my personal opinion, that you are removing the CD aspect though. Has anybody got anything new (compared to all of the other threads on this topic)?



As we have already established the basic problems are the Bull Centaurs and wolfriders on the cav bases and the 25mm bases of the orcs… Dwarfs fit best but are not the same thing IMHO.


As two people have said this has been discussed at length. If you want to drag up an old topic, search for the original thread and contribute something new. Would it be possible for Mods to start locking these types of threads and just post a link to the original?

Thommy H:

I’m pretty sure there’s even a page on the Wiki about it or, at least, a definitive topic on the subject posted by (I think) Cornixt. Either way, let’s sticky something so no one has to dredge up the counts-as argument again.

The bottom line is that if you want to play Chaos Dwarfs as they are in the background, with all the options, you just have to have some nice opponents who’ll let you use Ravening Hordes.


Locking topic we have already discussed is a bit draconian, and we’d end up with entirely locked topics after a year.

Thommy H:

I guess at least since there’s a new Chaos Warriors army this is worth dredging up to ask if the new list works any better than the old, but it really doesn’t - fewer units and less options doesn’t make for a good counts-as list.

On the other hand, the future Chaos Warriors Army Book is rumoured to have some options for cultists and so on (20mm bases, probably) that might have some options to make them more Dwarfy or Hobgoblin-like.