[Archive] Including a subservient race in our list?

Grimstonefire:

I think already I know what the answer will be to this, but I thought I’d ask anyway…

Hypothetically, if GW had never included hobgoblins in the CD list, would people honestly feel the need to have them in the list in the future?

Even if its not hobgoblins, do people feel the need to have any other race in our list?

On the plus side it ties in with the fluff about us expanding our armies with mercenaries/ slaves.��It gives us cheap troop types with a few tactical options.��But both of these don’t HAVE to be covered by hobgoblins.

On the negative side they take the place of other interesting CD core/ special units.��They also take a lot of rules for a small number of units.��Do they negate a weakness we should have?��I’m not sure.

They do help to reflect our relatively small numbers.��The wolf riders also show their role fluff wise (scouts covering the massive area of the Dark Lands).��So tying the fluff to the list.

What’s your opinion then?

Keep hobgoblins as they are; hero, boyz, sneaky gits, bolt thrower, wolf riders?

Expand the hobgoblin part in the list?

Get rid of all hobgoblins (saving them for their own list) and replace them with CD units.

Get rid of all hobgoblins and replace them with another subservient race.

This last one could be interesting, as we could design them to be whatever we wanted.��We would not have to conform to any existing fluff, and could tailor it to be specifically what we wanted.��Heck, it could even be Zoats!?!?

Lord Zarkov:

Keep hobgoblins as they are, with some background expansion.

I would like to see all other greenies gone though, and also a generic slave unit

Hobgoblyn:

Turn Hobgoblins into a Dogs of War army that can be utilized by Chaos Dwarfs, Empire (closest thing to Cathay right now), Ogre Kingdoms and Orcs & Goblin lists as well as their own stand-alone army.

As for the Chaos Dwarf list itself, keep it on its own but allow it to work with units from Chaos, Ogre Kingdoms, Hobgoblins and Orcs & Goblins.

That was both Chaos Dwarfs and Hobgoblins can not only work as stand-alone armies AND be combined, but they can also be sold to people who play other armies because they’ll be able to utilize them without fully committing to making a new army right away. This would make them much more valuable to produce to Games Workshop.

Hashut’s Blessing:

I think if the CD didn’t have a race to help them in the list, then I wouldn;t have thought to add them. That answers your question, but the question unasked (which most will answer, the question being ewhat do you want in future), I think they could do the same role, just no other greenskins would be in the armylist for the whole balance and weaknesses thing.

Ghrask Dragh:

I voted something else. I would like Hobgoblins to stay as they are, I have gotten used to them now (I wasn’t their biggest fan before I will admit), maybe with a less significant role though (in other words more Chaos Dwarfs!!) a warrior unit like a Dogs of War Mongol theme and also the introduction of slaves as a usable unit. Not just Orcs & Goblins, slaves! I have no idea how this could work, just something I would like to see as they are such a big part of our society.

wallacer:

Personally, I play CD because I actually like CD themselves.

If I wanted to play greenskins I would just use my Orc and Goblin army.

Having said that… Hobgoblins serve a valuable purpose as far as fluff goes (you all know about it so I won’t bother elaborating).

I do sometimes find it odd, however, that if CD get slaves of other races then why can’t Dark Elves or Skaven? (how numerous are Dark Elves, really? Aren’t they a dying race as well?)

Ideally I think Hobgobs should be confined to specialist roles (scouts, fast cav and maybe artillery crew and slavemasters) while the actual role of infantry is left to Chaos Dwarfs themselves. In other words it would be impossible to field a CD army without blocks of CD infantry.

That may not suit the concept of CD waging war primarily as slaving expeditions, but in all honesty that’s not what most Warhammer battles are anyway regardless of what the fluff says.

Rakmial:

I think that Hobgoblins only really fit with the Chaos Dwarf army well right now (Cathay doesn’t exist yet). Ogres already have gnoblars, and O&Gs hate hobgoblins because of their betrayal. Therefore, I think the DoW idea wouldn’t really work out. I think that it would be cool if CD could take Hobbos as items, like Ogres have luck gnoblars and such. That way they would be integrated into the army in a more subservient position than a full unit, and the player would be forced to take more CDs than Greens. However, they have a really important role in our army - speed on wolves, and cheap spear chukkas. I’m not really a fan of the sneaky gits, but i can see their use in wizard hunting and march blocking. It would be cool to just make the wolfboyz and spear chukkas special choices so the player MUST take CDs as core.

ashur:

Replace hobgoblins with Cthulu-like fishmen.

If not, give CD the chance to have a heavy mercenary army list variant (chaos mortals, ogres, Ind(?), DoW).

Pyro Stick:

I think hobgoblins should stay as they are. Maybe change the rules a little. But chaos dwarfs need a larger selection of units to choose from so i think the new CD list should be more based aorund chaos dwarfs themselves instead of chaos dwarfs hiding behind a wall of slaves and other non cd units.

Grimstonefire:

@ashur

Check out the Monsters and Mercenaries idea in this thread

https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/6231

That’s basically the same thing as what you’re describing, but instead of being a variant list (don’t exist in 7th ed warhammer), they become part of the main list.

Arlon:

keep hobgobs, keep green skins, add generic slave unit

asheira:

it not for hobgoblins, i wouldn’t have started

BFSP-cheap CD goddos/dwarfs that’s what sparked my intrest

dedwrekka:

By now, Hobgoblins are as ingrained into the Dawii Zharr background as the Chaos Dwarfs themselves. Their existence is why the Chaos Dwarfs have continued to survived slave revolts, and they provide a cheap source of infantry for the armies, and slave handers for the pits.

Like all goblin species they probably are bred/born fairly quickly enough to leave a good amount left over even after you toss them in the pits to keep the slaves down and take away others for personal slaves. This just leaves plenty for the chaos dwarfs to sacrifice on the battlefield.

However, I don’t see the Dawii Zharr tactically wasting their mainstay slaves, and hence I don’t see a generic slave unit making it into the army. They go on slave raids (which is their main contact with the Old World), and are constantly vying for more (which is they sold the Hellcannons to Archaon). They sacrifice slaves to Hashut constantly and use those that they don’t to work their mines and build their city. However, the Chaos Dwarfs seem more than happy to sacrifice their numerous goblin allies, so keeping them on the battlefield to hold up the enemy seems prudent.

Replace Black Orcs with Immortals, the Orcs and Goblins entries with new machinations to fill the special slot to the bursting, but keep the Hobgoblins and their Sneaky Gits as a good numbers addition and useful distraction if the need to flee arises.

I’d avoid over complication with an allies system or unique universal rules tacked on, it goes against the grain of the game system and other army books at this point in time.