Norngahl:
I first went for the double hobgoblin roadblocker as well (2x 40 with shields, banner, musician) but then realiesed, that CDs have some of the best "shove down your throat" units in the game- Bull Centaures and Iron Daemon/Skullcracker.I'm looking at one big block of IG, and 2 bigger blocks of Hobgoblins as my Core. Need the book before I can make any real decisions though.That's my starting point, too. But still, when i think about one of my regular opponents who plays a "tame" empire army (without Stank, Walter, and lvl4) with 2x50 hatred fueled halbardiers, and 30 strong flagellants and greatswords backed up by artillery/shooting and multiple intervening 5-man knights - 1xIG and 2xHG are not gonna do it. (Mortars vs. the HG units, halbardiers vs. IG, cannons vs. own artillery and knights to be a nuisance everywhere. Detachments to divert.)
Baggronor
On your character front: I agree. I'm playing around with a 4th character: A hobgoblin hero on wolf, leading wolfriders to rear-charge and break support units, like crossbowmen, artillery, detachments.
Maybe even just a small IG unit (maybe even with greatweapons) and another castellan, who can hold up most regiments of the non-death star variety all by himself (180 pts buy a well equipped castellan, but only 12-15 IG depending on equipment).
So: Mass Artillery to kill anything in sight, hobgoblins to slow and castellans to stop. Only one hellcannon (since i like my friends :P ) and a K'daii to kill what the artillery missed. Around 120-140 models on the table and win or loose by the hotness of the artillery dice.
Zhorn
Why to invest 2x192 points into stuff that won´t kill anything but simply holds it´s ground when I can take units that can hold their ground AND have some serious damage output in the same turn?
I mean, an Iron Daemon with T7, W7, 3+ AS, unbreakable has the same "hold" qualities like the hobgoblins have, but for some more points gets you some serious hurt in CC AND at distance.
8 Bull Centaures are expensive, but with T5, 3+ AS and 3 wounds each they will hold their ground as well, while hitting with 17 S6 attacks in return rahter than humble 10 S3...
Sure, both units are more expensive than hobgoblins... but primarily the game is about beeing versatile and killing stuff rather than blocking stuff out ;)
I use one unit of 40 as described above for +8 combat resolution (3 ranks, banner, charge, rear, backstabbers) to chrush the enemy once I forced a combat with my heavy hitters, or as the meant roadbloacker against some real nasty stuff (chosen for example). I wouldn´t take more than 1 of this unit, as you´re better of getting/upgrading killy stuff, cause you´ll hardly ever find worthy to tarpit targets for them. 1 unit has never failed me, but 2 simply are not worth it, even if they read great on the paper.
I myself take 2 Daemonsmiths over 1 Sorcerer Prophet.. They are cheaper, can pack a Dispel Scroll and Scroll of Shielding, get me 4 S5 attacks and a decent armoursave. One with Dawnstone/Enchanted Shield for reroll 2+/6+ as the general and one as 3+/6++ as support, with 2x2 wounds and 4 Metal spells (with throwing 2x2 I´ll rather get the metal spells I want than with 1x4).This doesn't work with chaos dwarfs since they're only strength 4 and more expensive by a long shot (more expensive characters, more expensive but less strength core, less magic defense, less accurate artillery).Yeah, true.
So, i don't think this really works (will find out at the weekend ).
I guess a chaos dwarf army which plays to it's strengths will use 40-50 strong units of hobgoblins as roadblocks (around 200 pts per block), and hellcannons (yes, plural) as blocker/killer/flankers.
I'm looking at one big block of IG, and 2 bigger blocks of Hobgoblins as my Core. Need the book before I can make any real decisions though.(And our extremely expensive lvl4 caster is no help on the points front, either: Too expensive for a caster, not enough hitting power for a HtH monster. And no reasonable item combination to push either role: earthing rod or healing potion is a given, ward save, too. That doesn't leave enough points allowance or item slots to make him either a great caster or a great HtH character. And demon smiths lend themselves to the artillery approach better anyways).Despite not having the book yet, I'm considering just having a Castellan BSB and 2 lvl2s for my characters. The Sorcerer Prophet is cool, but he seems to have the same problem as Hybrid Vampire Lords - very expensive and master of no trades.
Baggronor
The only reason I´d take a sorcerer prohet over 2 Daemonsmiths is
a) I want to use the model (which is pretty awesome)
b) I want to use lore of Hashut
c) I want a Lammasu in the List (reffering to 1)
As the only reasonable build I´d see:
Sorcerer Prohet
+ 4th Wizard Level
+ Lore of Hashut/Metal
+ Enchanted Shield
+ Talisman of Preservation
+ Dispel Scroll
+ Ironcurse Icon
+ Blood of Hashut
gives me 2+/4++ with T5, 3 wounds and some basic protection against magic and some support for my troops. Also gives me +4 to dispel and to cast, but more expensive than Daemonsmiths. Also got a nice one hit wonder against chars with the blood, but I wouldn´t expect him to kill any dedicated CC char.. As always, jack of all trades, master of nothing.
It´s no big difference, but I feel Daemonsmiths are the slightly better choiche in games under 2,5k, as they save points for the truely killy stuff (warmachines!) while supporting the troops you have a bit better in my opinion.
CDs can cast some stuff, but are no real caster nation.. so better just get some "I´m in the game" stuff like DS, rather than pumping some serious points into this with a SP, who won´t do much better.