# \[Archive\] Iron Daemon
**URL:** https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894
**Category:** \[Archive\] Tactics, Strategy & Battle Reports
**Created:** [16 November 2012 09:19 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894 "2012-11-16T09:19:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [16 November 2012 09:19 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/1 "2012-11-16T09:19:26Z")
**giantsquig** :
I have been looking through all the 2000-2500 lists lately and noticed that most don’t take an Iron Daemon. Is there a reason that this uint is left out of most lists?
I have only used it once and and it drew a lot of missile fire but that was about it.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [16 November 2012 09:27 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/2 "2012-11-16T09:27:26Z")
**Grimbold Blackhammer** :
I couldn’t tell you. I include an Iron Daemon in every one of my lists. I’ve tried it both as a Skullcracker and as a non-Skullcracker and it is really excellent in both forms. Coincidentally I just bought a local guys’s Chaos Dwarf collection because he said he didn’t like their play style so I can now field my four Iron Daemon list!
Grimbold Blackhammer
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [16 November 2012 10:12 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/3 "2012-11-16T10:12:54Z")
**Da Crusha** :
@ giant squig: there are a lot of reasons many people don’t bring them. first of all they are extremely easy to tarpit if charged by fast cavalry or anything bigger since they only have 3 s3 attacks and thunderstomp to protect it. thunderstomp only works on infantry, warbeasts and swarms. 2nd, the charge arc is ridiculous. a model simply has to move a few inches to the left or right and the train can no longer charge it. to charge with it effectively you have to position it the turn before. 3rd of all it cost 300 something points that could be spent somewhere else.
on the other hand it does have its uses. with hellbound it has T8 W8 and can be a hell of a tarpit for just about anything in the game. you can also fire its shot and kill monstrous infantry and larger with ease. it also makes an excellent S8 countercharger. the skull cracker is even more devastating with counter charging.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [16 November 2012 11:37 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/4 "2012-11-16T11:37:36Z")
**Marduk** :
I think the Iron Daemon is left out because its rules are difficult to understand and to explain.
I use an Iron Daemon because the model is really cool. Its performance is average.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [16 November 2012 11:37 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/5 "2012-11-16T11:37:45Z")
**frogbear** :
> on the other hand it does have its uses. with hellbound it has T8 W8 and can be a hell of a tarpit for just about anything in the game. you can also fire its shot and kill monstrous infantry and larger with ease. it also makes an excellent S8 countercharger. the skull cracker is even more devastating with counter charging.
>
> **Da Crusha**
Remember with the shooting you still have to hit and with BS3 after moving and possibly at long range, needing a '6' is not exactly great.
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### Author:  [@Baggronor](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Baggronor)
#### Post date: [16 November 2012 11:40 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/6 "2012-11-16T11:40:03Z")
**Baggronor** :
Basically, once you get your head around the fact that it isn’t a Steam Tank and has a totally different role, you start to appreciate it. That’s what I did anyway.
It is now, to me, invaluable as it can block things like Bloodletter hordes and Gutstars, plus the shooting murders monstrous cav.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [17 November 2012 12:08 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/7 "2012-11-17T12:08:00Z")
**Da Crusha** :
> Remember with the shooting you still have to hit and with BS3 after moving and possibly at long range, needing a '6' is not exactly great.
>
> **frogbear**
well it can move and shoot without penalty. so 5's to hit at long range. with the D3 wounds it can be pretty mean. I once did 12 wounds to a treeman ancient. not a completely average result but it shows the gun has potential. and with enchanted blades it can be even better.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [17 November 2012 10:25 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/8 "2012-11-17T10:25:44Z")
**Karring** :
I always include an Iron Daemon for protecting both my shooting and combat flank (unbreakeable!!). Playing in this way, it use to be more or less in center of my deployment, so eventually it is easy for it charge against infantry enemy blocs, which is where the ID can cause big damage.
It is not easy to use, anyway. But I think it costs those 285 points.
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### Author:  [@Bolg](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Bolg)
#### Post date: [17 November 2012 01:23 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/9 "2012-11-17T01:23:33Z")
**Bolg** :
> I think the Iron Daemon is left out because its rules are difficult to understand and to explain.
>
> **Marduk**
Jup thats me, not a huge fan of having to explain the ting every round at a tournament. will slow the game down.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [17 November 2012 03:32 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/10 "2012-11-17T03:32:33Z")
**Grimbold Blackhammer** :
I don’t think I’ve ever lost my Iron Daemon to close combat. I’ve had it on one wound many times but never lost it and that’s been against some very fighty opponents. The one who did take it out was a Tomb King list with 3 Lore of Death wizards sniping it.
The Iron Daemin has a 360 degree charge arc. I’ve never had an issue getting it into combat.
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### Author:  [@Baggronor](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Baggronor)
#### Post date: [17 November 2012 04:13 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/11 "2012-11-17T04:13:57Z")
**Baggronor** :
> The Iron Daemin has a 360 degree charge arc. I've never had an issue getting it into combat.
Eh? It charges in a straight line, no?
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [17 November 2012 04:51 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/12 "2012-11-17T04:51:54Z")
**Thommy H** :
Yep. You can only charge it using the special boiler move, and that has to be straight ahead.
[I’ll link my “remix” of its rules again, shall I?](http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11007)
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [17 November 2012 10:01 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/13 "2012-11-17T10:01:39Z")
**frogbear** :
Oh man! Some people need to read it’s rules a little closer… :D
That would be exceptional at its price if it could 360 charge.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [18 November 2012 01:19 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/14 "2012-11-18T01:19:22Z")
**Da Crusha** :
> Oh man! Some people need to read it's rules a little closer..... :D
>
> That would be exceptional at its price if it could 360 charge.
>
> **frogbear**
wouldn't that be like a steam tank? I havent played against one in a while.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [18 November 2012 01:50 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/15 "2012-11-18T01:50:38Z")
**frogbear** :
Steam tank can shoot 360. And the iron daemon is significantly better than a steam tank in a lot of ways.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [18 November 2012 02:05 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/16 "2012-11-18T02:05:37Z")
**Da Crusha** :
> Steam tank can shoot 360. And the iron daemon is significantly better than a steam tank in a lot of ways.
>
> **frogbear**
really? I remember the one from a couple of books ago best. from what I understand the newest empire book nerfed it a bit, no?
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [18 November 2012 07:56 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/17 "2012-11-18T07:56:48Z")
**frogbear** :
The steam gun only fires 360. But lets get back to the iron daemon…
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [18 November 2012 12:57 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/18 "2012-11-18T12:57:16Z")
**The Besieger** :
> I have been looking through all the 2000-2500 lists lately and noticed that most don't take an Iron Daemon. Is there a reason that this uint is left out of most lists?
>
> I have only used it once and and it drew a lot of missile fire but that was about it.
>
> **giantsquig**
I used a Iron Daemon & a Iron Daemon skullcracker on a 2400 Tournament and i was very happy about that list :).
I'm sure that i will do this more :).
http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11664
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### Author:  [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [18 November 2012 03:07 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/19 "2012-11-18T03:07:48Z")
**Grimbold Blackhammer** :
Ok yes, the Iron Daemon can only _charge_ straight ahead. But it also has the ability to pivot on the spot and move in that direction where it may “accidentally” contact another unit in which case it still does impact hits but the enemy gets Always Strikes First for that round. Which I honestly don’t care about because I’m T8 with 8 wounds and he’s going to be hitting me first anyway. I mean, I’m an initiative of 2… So yes, it essentially has a 360 degree charge which the enemy cannot flee from. Which. Is. AWESOME!
Grimbold Blackhammer
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### Author:  [@Baggronor](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Baggronor)
#### Post date: [18 November 2012 07:47 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-iron-daemon/17894/20 "2012-11-18T07:47:41Z")
**Baggronor** :
> But it also has the ability to pivot on the spot and move in that direction where it may "accidentally" contact another unit in which case it still does impact hits but the enemy gets Always Strikes First for that round.
The BRB states single models may 'pivot as many times as they wish _over the course of their move_' - if you engage the boiler though, Tamurkhan states The Move is straight ahead with no turning, and you either engage it or you don't. If you don't, then it can pivot as much as it likes for 6", if you do, it just goes straight forwards. Otherwise it would effectively have Random Movement (2D6+6) whenever it fancies it, which would be amazing and absurdly broken.
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