[Archive] Is the Legion of Azgorh is Official?

Archive [Archive] Chaos Dwarf Discussion
21

macvurrich:

Not sure if this helps

The Throne of Chaos Book

pg 105 - Campaign last Paragraph

"… As well as all this, also included in this section os a Chaos Dwarf army list for the grim Legion of Azgorh. This should be considered an offical army list for Warhammer."

pg 168 - Box at Bottom

Fighting games of Warhammer with the CD

“Cd can used by incorprating their units into existing Warriors of Chaos army or by using them as Contigent Forece in Chaos Great Force …”

22

Hashut’s Blessing:

That second half of the second quote surprises me! I’d only heard that they could be used stand alone or as part of WoC. Coolio!

Also cool that (regardless of what official means or doesn’t) it’s “an official list” because if someone’s reason for not playing is a lack of officiadom, there’s a quote in the book that forces them to come up with another reason (I don’t want to because I’d rather whinge about a list I’ve not seen before, despite the half a million you spent raising the army).

23

Thommy H:

But anyone can put a line in a book saying it’s official…

24

cornixt:

I’m going to write it at the end of all my army list variants!

25

Method:

Good Job Warhammer forge.

26

wallacer:

But anyone can put a line in a book saying it's official...

Thommy H
I doubt it. If the Indy GT guys had put a line in their list saying it's an official Warhammer army list the GW legal people would have been firing up their word processors pretty fast.

Warhammer Forge being owned by GW does count for something.
27

Method:

I agree. :hat

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

28

Thommy H:

If the Indy GT guys had put a line in their list saying it's an official Warhammer army list the GW legal people would have been firing up their word processors pretty fast.

wallacer
I bet they wouldn't, because I think even GW know that "official in Warhammer" has no legal standing (actual legal, in the sense of real world judiciary processes).

The point is, either FW have the power to declare legality or they don't. If they do, they don't need to (because, by this argument, they are GW), and if they don't, they can't anyway.

So some sort of "official stamp" is always irrelevant.
29

wallacer:

I bet they wouldn't

Thommy H
I bet they would. Saying a list is "official" when that listed is clearly designed as being for use in Warhammer, a game owned by GW, would very clearly be implying that the Indy list had received some kind of sanction from GW.
Had GW actually done this it would constitute a relinquishment of control over GW's IP (in this case "Warhammer"). I doubt if GW would be keen on that. I would actually be very surprised if GW didn't politely ask to have the word "official" removed from such a fan list.

It's not the "official in..." part of "official in Warhammer" that is the problem. It is the "...Warhammer" part. As a bunch of fans the people who made the Indy list have no right to declare that they are making product for a company they do not work for (which they would be implicitly doing if they declared it "official"). The word official may not mean anything as such but they'd have to tread pretty damned carefully before implying that they had any right to be producing product for a GW game. This is the reason why the people who made the Indy list even went so far as to rework the Warhammer logo so it looked different (a bit odd but if nothing else it shows they were aware of the risks).
The point is, either FW have the power to declare legality or they don't. If they do, they don't need to (because, by this argument, they are GW), and if they don't, they can't anyway.

Thommy H
FW would not declare "officiality" because they needed to as such. They would do it to stop whiny tournament players recoiling in horror from playing something that had not received Games Workshop's apostolic blessing. I dont think WF declaring the list "official" would be done because they needed to, it would be done essentially as a favour to CD players to help them out when rocking up for a game - they could then show their opponent that the army is "valid".
So some sort of "official stamp" is always irrelevant.

Thommy H
Yup, but the word "Warhammer" is not. GW/WF can use it to their heart's content as they own it. Nobody else does.
In effect WF/GW are "official" as they own the IP and can legally use it in whatever manner they deem appropriate. A WF list would be stamped as "official" only to make sure that dumbasses who care about drawing a distinction between what is official and unofficial wouldn't be able to use that as an excuse to somehow deny that the list is a valid contribution to the Warhammer universe.
30

tjub:

Boys, stop throwing sand at each other…

31

Thommy H:

I’m not sure why we’re arguing, Wallacer, because I agree with everything you just said! My point about the Indy GT list being able to say what it likes was really about how little GW cares for “official” as a concept. I agree with you about the IP thing though - it’s a different but connected issue.

32

macvurrich:

If it’s any help (or not)

talking before the doors opened and aftewards in my GCN role

the GW GT + thrones of Skulls mob

will most likely be including these rules in their packs

Though to be honest the ToC released is nothing like the Beta they showed me before hand :slight_smile:

33

Thommy H:

See, that’s fine. Tournament organisers should be allowing whichever lists they deem appropriate - and I have every hope most of them allow this one, despite some misgivings about a few things. They shouldn’t feel like they must allow it though, because it isn’t produced by the main GW studio. Similarly, it’s not reasonable to spring it on an opponent without warning: they don’t know what they’re up against necessarily and that arguably gives the Legion of Azgorh player an unfair advantage.

34

Baggronor:

I would also point out that the more we argue about this the less the people who are really picky about officialness will be willing to accept it.

If Throne of Skulls allows Tamurkhan then you can basicaly put all the tournament ‘officialness’ queries to bed. Even the whiniest of the whiners will basically have to accept it.

Otherwise its at tournament organiser’s discretion… which it always is anyway.

35

KramDratta:

If Throne of Skulls allows Tamurkhan then you can basicaly put all the tournament 'officialness' queries to bed.

Baggronor
Agree 100%. Anyone know when its due??
36

Borin Sourfist:

I would like to add that it’s not an officially recognised argument unless GW releases an official ‘Codex: Flamewar’.

the GW GT + thrones of Skulls mob

will most likely be including these rules in their packs
This would be great, not just for ‘legitimising’ the list in the eyes of any sceptics, but generating debate on other Warhammer sites about how to counter various units/builds etc, which in turn familiarises other players with what they may expect in a pick-up game, making it easier for all of us to get a game outside of our usual group.

37

Discoking:

GW books used to all automatically get the full confidence, although this was somewhat shaken by 7th edition where there was a clear power gap between some armies.

cornixt
I lost confidence when I saw the latest Beastmen list, ha-ha.

:hat off
38

RTMaitreya:

All I know is:

1) The list is official, and likely to be allowed in any tournament. It even says so, and therefore woe betide any TO to claim otherwise.

2) Herby is officially the hunkiest Dawi Zharr in the whole of the olde worlde.

39

Nicodemus:

What's wrong? Now we've got what we wanted all the time. New Dawi-Zharr models and a new book. At last it happened! You have to be happy. So many guys here are mourning. Forget it! Take your Chaos Dwarfs and bring them to the fields of glory. The Dawi-Zharr are truly back again.

Herby
Excellent first post Herby! I quite agree.
40

Thommy H:

1) The list is official, and likely to be allowed in any tournament.  It even says so, and therefore woe betide any TO to claim otherwise.

RTMaitreya
Tournament organisers can do what they want in their own tournaments.