So i’ve been thinking about my list, and had this crazy idea. If the dark mace of death were equipped to a sorcerer lord with a lammassu could he hunt down small, 5 man units of especially scary heavy cavalry like grail knights, blood knights , chosen chaos knights and the like? His mediocre ws and attacks wouldn’t hurt the weapon’s performance at all, and with a 20" charge it could hit wherever it was needed. Is this in any way a viable tactic or just a loony thing to try once for shock value?
Im not sure i would put it on a mage… Thats too many point to dedicate to that tactic… also puts a mage in danger…
Ill assume lvl 3 sorcerer…
So thats 490 Pts…
at most… you can potentially kill 4 models of cavalry or anything for that matter… your on a 50mm base… cav is 25 wide…
Against 1 wound knight you will pretty much guarantee 4 dead unless they have ward saves or some other item to help.
Against 2 wound Knights… you have to be careful as problem one arises on a botch… you kill 2 and maybe wound another if you roll poorly… leaving plenty of attacks to kill your naked mage. Dont expect the Lammasu to save you either his stats are horrid as a combat mount.
The tactic idea is sound but on the wrong character… it should be on a CD Lord with a Bull. I will remind you that this will greatly upset some players…
I saw it played at a GT where it was used while in Challenge and he proceeded to kill the general he was in combat with with 3 over kill from the bull then 3 additional casualties from the mace affecting models not in the challenge… it got a judge called then the Senior judge then it went to panel decision as the other player was on the verge of punching the CD player. In the CD players defense he was nice and trying to be understanding but was quoting the rule. the other guy was simply pissed as he was 1: playing undead and didnt want to crumble. and 2 was loosing the combat by 8 with skeletons.
The judges finally ruled in favor of the CD player as they deemed the Mace was an effect and not a true weapon.
It is a pretty sneaky combo, but it does work. I saw it at the GT a few years ago. True, it is 490 points, but he’s not just going to do one thing, he is still a mage lord who can cast, dispel and fly around causing terror/negating ranks etc.
If its on a mage, best to put him in the side of a combat that is ongoing, so he doesn’t get stuck in HtH on his own coz of a lucky break test. It could swing a crucial combat easily though, not to mention allow him to mug a small unit (Chaos Knights anyone?:cheers).
I don’t think its too bad, it is 100pts and one use after all, so its the only thing he can take, plus its not like CDs have much of a selection of items to choose from. I don’t see how its any more overpowered than a magic stone that lets you teleport from wood to wood (not that I hate WEs or anything:hat).
Anybody pissing and moaning about CD magic items is the one that needs to be punched in the face.
The biggest drawback is the fact of no armor which with the escalation of combat offensiveness of many units in various armies a CD Sorcerer could very easily get whacked.
DMoD gets a bad wrap but in the right circumstances it could be useful if not very useful. Plus as a game get larger and with more points the chance that you’ll have it get greater if for no other reason then you are running out of magic items to equip someone with.
I just can’t bring myself to equip it to a combat lord who could probably kill everyone within reach anyways with the black hammer due to his high weapon skill and respectable number of attacks. It isn’t worth 100 points to buy something that will become a hand weapon after one use. On the other hand the fact that everyone and their mother has always strike first these days means that it’d take some doing to survive long enough to get the big hit in. Still, one of my buddies runs blood knights and I don’t think I can resist the urge to club them like seals
One thing to remember is that if they don’t break from that one attack, you are pretty screwed in the next turn. 100pts means no protection of any kind, just T4 and a few wounds. A bit scary if you just charged into the strongest and hardest unit he has.
T5, but yeah, only basic gear to protect himself with. The fact that the lord can’t take a mundane great weapon if he has the mace is also problematic, although he does still have magic attacks at least. I think its best used on a Sorcerer Lord really.
So, you can equip magic users with magic hand weapons? It’s always been an iffy thing with me as the rules say you can’t equip with items if you can’t take the mundane version, so when does a magic great sword become a greatweapon mundane classification et al? Is there further classification for this as like I said always been a bit iffy with the rule.
That all said, CD Lord on Great Taurus with the Mace all the way, if you don’t finish the guys in B-2-B with you the Great Taurus follows up and does. It’s also a surprisingly effective combo against an Ogre Unit. potentially taking out a full 3 Ogres in one go and thus breaking them, heck potentially taking out a 4th one if you get a full 3 wounds on each ogre with the mace.
On a Sorcerer Lord it would be interesting, but for sheer amusement factor I’d take the Talisman of Obsidian on a Sorcr Lord on Lammassu! Just imagine the looks of confusement on your opponents faces!
I saw it played at a GT where it was used while in Challenge and he proceeded to kill the general he was in combat with with 3 over kill from the bull then 3 additional casualties from the mace affecting models not in the challenge… it got a judge called then the Senior judge then it went to panel decision as the other player was on the verge of punching the CD player. In the CD players defense he was nice and trying to be understanding but was quoting the rule. the other guy was simply pissed as he was 1: playing undead and didnt want to crumble. and 2 was loosing the combat by 8 with skeletons.
The judges finally ruled in favor of the CD player as they deemed the Mace was an effect and not a true weapon.
Servius
1 the undead player was a sore loser that deserved all he got. 2 Aren’t challenges separate to the unit as in everyone makes room for the two challenges to go, you even stick the models to the side of the unit, hence not in base contact with models in the unit, so why did this come up at all? Or am I just very tired at 4:41am?
So, you can equip magic users with magic hand weapons? It's always been an iffy thing with me as the rules say you can't equip with items if you can't take the mundane version, so when does a magic great sword become a greatweapon mundane classification et al? Is there further classification for this as like I said always been a bit iffy with the rule.
He can have a mundane hand weapon, so he can have a magical hand weapon. Nothing iffy about it. He can't, however, use a magical great weapon, as he cannot use a mundane great weapon. Its all in the rulebook.
Aren't challenges separate to the unit as in everyone makes room for the two challenges to go, you even stick the models to the side of the unit, hence not in base contact with models in the unit, so why did this come up at all? Or am I just very tired at 4:41am?
I too think this is wrong, the other models should not be affected by the models fighting in the challenge, in the same way that they cannot attack the models in the challenge.
WFBRB Page 77. Fighting a Challenge… "When combat if worked out, these two will fight together. no other models may attack them or their mount, even if their bases are touching… it has become accepted that this also means that people in a challenge cant attack out of the challenge.
Now. The Dark Mace is not an attack… it doesn’t use a weapon skill or ballistic skill… It deals hits. and as you can read there is no mention of hits… only attacks. they are different and there are precedences of the uses of both terms in the WFB rules.
The Challenge is not a separate combat… Is not moved away from the unit… the only movement done it to make sure the challengers are themselves in B2B. if it were separate it would have its own combat res total…
True. Hmmm. This is still highly suspect though. I know there is not much to dispute it in terms of rules, but it does mean there is no real counter for it, besides Shoot Him. But then I suppose it is 100pts…
Just a rules question- Hypothetically speaking you hit 4 one wound models with it, but roll well and get 3 wounds on each. Does it only count as 4 wounds for CR or 12? Do you only get the overkill bonus in challenges? It sounds overpowered, but seeing your unit get crushed like that scene from Lord of the Rings would be fairly horrifying right? I feel like a huge noob for asking this but I’ve never run a multi-wound causing model in cc (s3 armies like skaven and elves) and don’t even own the current rulebook.
If the unit is composed of multi-wound models, then you get every wound caused for combat res. It is truly grim when used against ogres, minotaurs etc. If they have 1 wound each, then you just get 1 each. Overkill does apply in challenges but not the rest of the time.
Just imagine the looks of confusement on your opponents faces! 