[Archive] Lammasu **This message was automatically appended because it was too short.**(1)

Ceann Fine:

Is there any effective builds, tactics based around a prophet on this bearded cow?

fattdex:

I think it’s something to take for gigs in games over 2600 where you already have an effective build

Ceann Fine:

Thats what I was afraid of mate, their pathetic match up against bale taurus sorcerers says it all

Da Crusha:

well, they are the only access we have to Lore of Shadow. and grant MR3 to the rider which could easily give him a 2+ ward vs wounds caused by magic. In Ravening hordes I used to use 2 level 1 shadow wizards and cast miasma to lower the initiative of several units then use a sorc lord on lammasu and fly upto a flank and purple sun. its more difficult to do with LoA because you’d only have one shadow wizard. but at least the lammasu would open up the possibility.

I read another thread where someone suggested using the lammasu’s magic weapon nullifying ability to charge characters with powerful weapons that were fighting in a challenge. the lammasu unit would be allowed to charge but could not fight because of the challenge and still nullify the weapon because of being in base contact. you must not be in B+B with your own character though or nullify his weapon as well. a similar trick could be to nullify your own weapon should your opponent be immune to it somehow. very situational.

fattdex:

Very situ ational is the key. But i built a converted one a) because it looks cool b) because it’s strikingly chaos dwarf c) something unique to throw into a large/storm of magic game.

Ceann Fine:

It could work very well in tandem with a k’daai as non magical attacks re roll to wound against a k’daai

RiTides:

Ugh, I am sad to hear this :(. I just ordered the Storm of Magic book to get the rules for the Lammasu. So a bale taurus is a lot better, you say? I didn’t really have any way of knowing without having the rules for this thing, so yeah… bummer!

I’m still going to try using it :slight_smile: in funs lists, though!

gashnag:

Da Crusha on ridden monsters in a challenge both rider and monster fight and the thunder stomp only hits the opponent in the challenge

Rahveel:

and grant MR3 to the rider which could easily give him a 2+ ward vs wounds caused by magic.

Da Crusha
Is MR3 is passed to the rider? I am still pretty new to 8th so could be missing a relevant bit of info. My questioning of this is what the rulebook says on pg 105 under 'ridden monsters and special rules' and magic resist being a Special rule as listed in both the rulebook and SoM entry.

khedyarl:

Couple clarifications for things.

1)  MR is conferred to the model, Rahveel, and a Monster and Rider are a single model.  By this same note, a Lamassu/rider gets to use the magic weapon it’s wielding because a model is never in base contact with itself, as per the rulebook FAQ.

2)  Gashnag is correct, DaCrusha;  Ridden monsters take part in a challenge, and can be targeted by the challenged model instead of the rider.  Again, as Gashnag said, breath weapons, stomps, and thunder stomps must all be directed at the challenged opponent, and may not target a unit housing the character.  If at any initiative step the challenged opponent has been killed, all other initiative steps in the challenge forgo their attacks.

As for the playability of the Lamassu:  I’ve played with it pretty extensively, and have racked up probably forty or fifty games with it.  After all that, I can pretty comfortably say that it is easily the worst character mount in the game for its cost.  :P

Now, don’t get me wrong.  I absolutely adore the ugly thing - as I said, I rarely play a game without one.  If you plan to take him, realistically expect that he won’t accomplish much.  The access to the lore of Shadow isn’t worth the two Daemonsmiths, or almost-Iron Daemon, or any number of other much, much better options.  You take the Lammassu because you love him conceptually.  You take him because you get to play a wizard that rides around a wizard.  Heh.

Now, it’s not all doom and gloom.  There are SOME benefits to taking the Lamassu.  The first is… a weird one.  Taking a Lamassu over a Bale Taurus makes you far less likely to toss your prophet into a combat you won’t win, but think you might.  :P  Not a great benefit, but definitely there.
I would say it’s unlikely that anyone’s taking a mounted Prophet without a talisman of preservation, so immediately out of the game, you have a model that is likely immune to virtually all wound-inducing spells.  
The Lamassu also allows him to get around pretty quickly, but again, that’s not specific to the Lamassu.
Occasionally I’ll give him the breath weapon, which is pricey, but honestly, if you’re taking a Lamassu, you’re not worried about the cost obviously.  :P  A S4 magical breath weapon is nothing to sneeze at, either - it’s one of the few models you can guarantee will annihilate a unit of Vampire incorporeals, and at strength four, even non-incorporeal targets will feel it.

Nullifying enemy weapons is… well, it’s not optimal.  the Lamassu is going to die from virtually any enemy character that looks at him funny, even without a magic weapon.  T5, no save, only 4 wounds really hurts him.  His incredibly low attacks and terrible weaponskill don’t exactly make him a powerhouse, either, and if you ever find him in combat it’s likely that your Thunderstomp/breathweapon are going to be your key to doing any damage.  Which brings us to the last point:

NEVER, EVER USE A LAMASSU AS A COMBAT MOUNT.  SERIOUSLY.  DON’T DO IT.  FINE.  DO IT.  LIKE I CARE.

Well, that got out of hand.  Heh.

The Lamassu is just awful in combat.  Horrible.  Take the Taurus or bale Taurus if you want to be in combat ever.  The only time you should ever see combat with a Lamassu is if someone pulls an incredible long-distance charge off against you, something far, far beyond your control has happened, you’re hitting a Warmachine, or you’re charging a small unit of low-armour save, strength three infantry WITH SUPPORT and really need it to break for some reason.  

Keep him out of combat, keep him debuffing with lore of shadow, and keep him out of harms way.  He flies, and if you use the old model he can be pretty easy to hide since he’s fairly small for a monster.  If you, like me, built your own from a Bale Taurus that can be seen from space, than god have mercy on you.

Good luck, and keep goating!

ADDENDUM:

Ok, so, I lied to you. Kind of. I HAVE used my goat in combat before. But every time I have, it has been a very, very desperate encounter, and I suggest you treat him charging into combat as an absolutely last-ditch effort.

Da Crusha:

perhaps I didnt explain myself correctly. what I think I remember reading about was using the the prophet on lammasu to charge into a challenge that is already happening… something like that. to nullify the weapon of the enemy.

khedyarl:

Ahhh, no, yeah, that totally works. It would take some pretty nifty maneuvering, but it’s definitely possible.

Rahveel:

MR is conferred to the model, Rahveel, and a Monster and Rider are a single model.  By this same note, a Lamassu/rider gets to use the magic weapon it's wielding because a model is never in base contact with itself, as per the rulebook FAQ.

khedyarl
this was my thinking too, but my opinion got confused by a few things, the start was a similar-ish debate about the fireborn special rule from the new HE book, in regards to it benefiting dragon mounts (basically, it again says 'model') over on Ulthuan.net (my primary opponent is HE, i try to follow their forums :p)

basically, the (hugely summarized) counter argument being made there is that A ) 'model' refers to a profile, not a miniature (Id check out the discussion there for a better explanation, i don't want to copy a few pages) and B ) basically what i said before about special rules not passing between rider and mount on pg 105.

honestly I really like the lammasu either way, especially against magic heavy armies w/out cannonballs (another of my primary opponents is lizards -_-) I plan on getting one once my LoA is field-able on its own (not just as a WoC tie in). Its just cooler than the Taurus.

Ceann Fine:

I’m gonna give him a whirl in a few games next week and will post how he did

khedyarl:

That’s a tough argument for them to make, Rahveel, given that if a character riding a monster isn’t part of the model, that means it isn’t actually in base contact with anything, and unable to attack.  Seems… Silly.  

Taking their second argument, however, in that special rules are normally (Key word on pg 105) not passed between rider and mount, Magic Resistance is conferred to any unit the character joins as well.  Not passing it between a rider and mount would seem counterintuitive at best.

Finally, if the model argument pans out against our favour (rider and mount are seperate models) then the Lamassu becomes the worst mount in the game, without exception.  The 260 points we pay for a Prophet is so high because he comes with a magic weapon.  Which would be automatically nullified if the Rider/Lamassu count as seperate models.  That would be tragic to say the least, and it straight-up removes the Lamassu as a mount option in any list for anyone.