[Archive] LD banner and LD 11

Gunnerson:

So I know you can do it but does it work? LD base is 10 banner gives +1 so it goes to 11. I know there is the argument that attributes cap at 10 but I have been doing a lot of reading about beastmen and the consensus is that a Doombull+Ramhorn can get 11+attacks due to bonuses. I read about one where the “Rambull” got to 14 attacks. One recent event I attended had a “Rambull” with 12 attacks. His stat capped at 10 but the consensus seems to be that bonuses can push the attributes above that number. If it works with the “Rambull” why wouldn’t it work on a LD10 bsb/unit? I was allowed to do it (unplanned) recently and it felt dirty but it did seem right…

Thommy H:

No characteristic can be raised above 10.

Nicodemus:

Yeup, Thommy H is correct. This is a general rule throughout the WH rules, although I’ve never heard of it being applied to attacks, just the other characteristics in a profile like LD, WS, etc.  At any rate, the Beastmen list and the number of attacks is a separate argument from increasing LD - you definitely cannot go beyond 10.

Persufflation:

I think the ramhelm works that way since it is not attacks generated from his base statline but from attacks being reflected back by the magic item and armor saves…I believe basic statline characteristics are capped at 10…

Gunnerson:

Ramhorn provides +1a for each save made. Can someone direct me to a page in the the BRB that states there is a hard cap? I don’t remember a specific spot that says there is a hard cap but I do recall reading somthing that says somthing like “skills normally max at 10”. The attacks are “bonus” attacks at +1 per save and the leadership is a “bonus” of +1 due to the banner. Both things are outside of the “normal” stat line.

Nicodemus:

Ramhorn provides +1a for each save made. Can someone direct me to a page in the the BRB that states there is a hard cap?

Gunnerson
BRB p3, very first paragraph under "Characteristics of Models". It says characteristics are rated on a scale from 0 to 10 and they cannot go below 0 or above 10.

As Attacks are listed there I'm inclined to argue against more than 10 attacks per model as well. A special rule that allows a model to cause multiple hits might allow for more 'apparent' attacks, but attacking and hitting aren't necessarily the same thing when analyzed under the magnifying glass of rules interpretation. At any rate, no A>10. Similarly M is never listed above 10, but that value works differently in the game when taking other special rules into consideration like flying, etc... but all the base characteristics stay between 0-10.

~N

Thommy H:

You might be able to roll more than 10 Attacks (because of Random Attacks, Red Fury etc.), but anything that actually adds to a characteristic value is capped at 10.

Woody:

Attacks can go over ten, all other stats can not

Bolg:

Attacks can go over ten, all other stats can not

Woody
Please explain where you get your insight.

Woody:

Q: When a model has a random characteristic value, 3D6 or

2D6+2 for example, can that characteristic go above 10? (p3)

A: Yes, this is an exception to the usual maximum.

This also works with a Doombull raging up to 10 attacks and gaining extra from magic weapons(+1, +D3 etc.).

bas_2312:

Q: When a model has a random characteristic value, 3D6 or
2D6+2 for example, can that characteristic go above 10? (p3)
A: Yes, this is an exception to the usual maximum.

This also works with a Doombull raging up to 10 attacks and gaining extra from magic weapons(+1, +D3 etc.).

Woody
I says that random attacks can go over 10 right? So how does that apply to a Doombull?

Woody:

The characteristic goes up to 10, but he will get +1A for additional hand weapon to a total of eleven, extra for a brass cleaver etc. as the characteristic itself is only capped at 10, other bonuses stack.

Besides a mountain chimera can have 24 attacks potentially(4D6).

Gunnerson:

The characteristic goes up to 10, but he will get +1A for additional hand weapon to a total of eleven, extra for a brass cleaver etc. as the characteristic itself is only capped at 10, other bonuses stack.

Besides a mountain chimera can have 24 attacks potentially(4D6).

Woody
The Ram bull is different thoguh. The rambull gets +1A per wound that he saves. This is quite different from xd6 random attacks. Anytime you get Attribute xd6 then sure no doubt you can get any number generated by the dice. I contend that if attributes are capped at 10 than any number generated above 10 is lost. This is specific to things like the Rambull or a hero with +1a per character in B2B. So I suppose if the hard cap is 10 he only ever gets 3-4 bonus attacks.

Now if you have LD 10 and the +1 LD banner and loose combat res by 1 are you testing at LD9 (10-1=9) or are you testing at 10 (10-1+1=10)? In the order of operations at what point is the +1 for the banner added in?

Bolg:

The characteristic goes up to 10, but he will get +1A for additional hand weapon to a total of eleven, extra for a brass cleaver etc. as the characteristic itself is only capped at 10, other bonuses stack.

Besides a mountain chimera can have 24 attacks potentially(4D6).

Woody
Random can go over 10, that is clearly stated in the rules.

But like the banner in the subject,max value +1 = still max value. So 10, not 11 or 12 So the doom bull also stops at A10 even is he is equipped with a extra arm 2 additional hand weapons and a friend named Sue. (and A 10 is more than enough)

the mountain chimera is not relevant as once again, its has a random value.

Ugly Green Trog:

Would a Ld 11 model still fail on an 11 yet if they lost combat they would discount 1 point less of their Ld for the test? Just like a 1+ save still failing on a 1 but ignore s4 armour modifiers.

Bolg:

Would a Ld 11 model still fail on an 11 yet if they lost combat they would discount 1 point less of their Ld for the test? Just like a 1+ save still failing on a 1 but ignore s4 armour modifiers.

Ugly Green Trog
Read....

there is _no_ LD11...

Nicodemus:

Oh dear.

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

Ugly Green Trog:

Would a Ld 11 model still fail on an 11 yet if they lost combat they would discount 1 point less of their Ld for the test? Just like a 1+ save still failing on a 1 but ignore s4 armour modifiers.

Ugly Green Trog
Read....

there is _no_ LD11...


Bolg
I know they wouldn't have ld 11 I just think it would make sense that they would ignore 1 point of Ld modifiers. If it works for armour why wouldn't it work for other stats?

Thommy H:

All characteristic values are capped at 10. Armour save isn’t a characteristic value.

furrie:

The characteristic goes up to 10, but he will get +1A for additional hand weapon to a total of eleven, extra for a brass cleaver etc. as the characteristic itself is only capped at 10, other bonuses stack.

Besides a mountain chimera can have 24 attacks potentially(4D6).

Woody
The Ram bull is different thoguh. The rambull gets +1A per wound that he saves. This is quite different from xd6 random attacks. Anytime you get Attribute xd6 then sure no doubt you can get any number generated by the dice. I contend that if attributes are capped at 10 than any number generated above 10 is lost. This is specific to things like the Rambull or a hero with +1a per character in B2B. So I suppose if the hard cap is 10 he only ever gets 3-4 bonus attacks.

Now if you have LD 10 and the +1 LD banner and loose combat res by 1 are you testing at LD9 (10-1=9) or are you testing at 10 (10-1+1=10)? In the order of operations at what point is the +1 for the banner added in?


Gunnerson
the ram bull doesn't get +1A per saved wound it does a bonus attack per wound. This makes it differen because the attacks arn't actualy added to the statline.
This is also where the ramhorn helm is different from the +1 LD banner. The actualy adds the LD to the statline.