Glimpse the Void:
I apologize if this is simple or already been discussed elsewhere. I may be bad at using the forums search function.
My question reguards the passage on page 186 that indicates that chaos dwarves sell their services to warriors armies and may be included in a normal WOC list with one unit of infernals per daemonsmith as a special, with magma cannons, deathshrieker rockets, iron daemons, and Dreadquake mortars taken as rare choices.
There is a paragraph that says that these rules do not apply if one is using the Great Host options from page 142.
Does this mean that I can run chaos dwarves as part of a legit (i.e: excpeted at most tournaments and gaming circles) WOC list with some of my chaos dwarves? This all seems straight forward but way to good to be true.
Furthermore, does anyone do this and how do folks tend to react?
If you wanted to use just chaos dwarfs LoA I know that’s legal, as for bringing some chaos dwarfs with WOC I’m gonna vote no on this one
Glimpse the Void:
Yeah, it seems like a alot am i misreading this page? You guys know the one I mean right? Also, that is the sweetest Avatar ever man…
You have to check the tournament rules - almost all tournaments at Warhammer World it’ll be no (occasionally the Legendary battles might let you). Regardless of using them in Warriors of Chaos or on their own.
The thing is, it’s whether they let you use Warhammer Forge rules or not - if they say no to warhammer Forge rules, then no Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos and thusly not able to ally them into Warriors of Chaos or use them on their own.
If LoA is legal, so are the rules for including its units in WoC. Tournaments will set their own rules, of course, but in a general sense, the list is either allowed or it isn’t, and the rules for allying with WoC are part of that list.
Glimpse the Void:
If LoA is legal, so are the rules for including its units in WoC. Tournaments will set their own rules, of course, but in a general sense, the list is either allowed or it isn't, and the rules for allying with WoC are part of that list.
That's how I read this as well, Thommy. I'm wondering if anybody has had any experince (positive or negative) doing something like this at a tournement or amongst their gaming store or club.
I'm sure you could wrirte a really bent list like this, but please know that is far from my intention...
It’s a trickier prospect allying from the WoC side.
Imo from the CD side (WoC to be the minority) the ‘rules’ as they stand are that you can only ally with WoC through a Great Host (i.e. as part of a Tamurkhan based conglomerate with all the rules that apply to the Great Host as a whole).
From the WoC side (WoC to be the majority), if your list is not a Great Host you would have to refer to the rulebook for which category of ally the CD would be. Which obviously is nothing because they are not in there.
So you’d have to check if you could ally with LoA outside of a Great Host.
That’s my understanding anyway.
No, you can include Chaos Dwarf units in a WoC army without it being a Great Host. That’s why it says “if you are using LoA as part of a Great Host, the rules below are not used” (emphasis mine).
The box out on page 186 does seem to make it clear which units you can take as part of a WoC army, and whether the units are lords/heroes/special/rare. The rules for allies aren’t used - it’s just an extension of the WoC army list. So you could add a daemonsmith and two magma cannons if you wanted.
Yeah but if you are going to run it in a tournament I would clarify with the organizer
I don’t envision TOs allowing that. I have so far seen the LoA list used and allowed in Many tournies, but I have not seen them taken as part of a WoC list.
If you were hoping to take them as part of a WoC list, it would likely only be allowed at a tourney allowing other armies to take FW units, too. I.e, “all warhammer forge allowed”.
This is much rarer than “Legion of Asgorh” allowed, which is quite common (in fact I’d say it’s the norm).
Most tournaments in my neck of the woods specify that the Legion of Azgorh rules are allowed as a stand-alone army only, and not as part of a WoC list. And by most, I mean that I have yet to see a single one without this stipulation.
I guess the question is are you expecting to take it to a tournament?
If not then in your own gaming circle then I say have at it. My own gaming group would certainly be interested in trying it out but then we’re a pretty relaxed bunch and are happy to go with new and funky stuff.
If you do give it a whirl then let us know how you get on.
It’s rather a bizarre little thing really, that they can be included as allies. I think it goes back to the original plan with Tamurkhan, which was to do a series of four books detailing a huge Chaos incursion that would eventually destroy the Empire (hints of this appear in the boxed-out prologue that tells the story of the four sons of the Great Khurgan, each given to one of the gods). I would imagine the original intention was just to include rules for a couple of Chaos Dwarf units (notably the Iron Daemon and its train of artillery) that could be run in a Warriors of Chaos army - maybe with an option to field them as a pure, if limited, Chaos Dwarf army - but when the project was scaled back and everyone went crazy for the idea of new Chaos Dwarfs, they had to quickly turn their handful of new units into a fully playable list. The allies thing is just a little artefact of Plan A.
Glimpse the Void:
On another subject, I’d love to see books for the three other sons. I don’t have anything against nurgle, but I’d be all hot and bothered for a book about the tzeentch or khorne champions…
IMO it would depend on whether your tournament/opponent is cool with Warhammer Forge stuff being used. If so then LoA in WoC is absolutely fine, as they’re an addition to the army list same as seige giants, plague toads and rot knights. The fact that they can be used in more than one army is irrelevant.
As for the other Gods’ books, I believe they were pulled when Rick Priestley left WF. They may happen eventually but at the moment they’ve been sent to Development Hell. It’s a real shame as I was really excited about adding more to my Khorne Army.
I can only speak for the local tourneys in my area as I’ve talked to organizers and shown interest with my own force of shorties in the works, the Chaos Dwarfs are allowed if and only if you have the Tamurkhan book and any relevant FW FAQ information on hand in printed form. IE you can’t just call it up on your phone. Allies simply aren’t a thing at our tourneys, and the non Chaos Dwarf material in the Tamurkhan book is disallowed from our tourneys. Similarly, after the most recent tourney (first appearance of a Chaos Dwarf army locally) the Chalice has some additional restrictions.
So yeah, I would say if you’re playing a non standard army like Chaos Dwarfs it behooves you to do your due dilligence with the locals.
Glimpse the Void:
IMO it would depend on whether your tournament/opponent is cool with Warhammer Forge stuff being used. If so then LoA in WoC is absolutely fine, as they're an addition to the army list same as siege giants, plague toads and rot knights. The fact that they can be used in more than one army is irrelevant.
Now this makes sense to me. Thank you for the clairty to an otherwise muddy concept (muddy for me at least) .