[Archive] LoA- Making Hobgoblin Wolfriders work. (For those determined to do so!)

saurus:

Hi,

I know the Legion of Azgorh list has only been available for a short time but one unit I am constantly hearing negative feedback about are the hobgoblin wolfriders. In this discussion I will be talking about small harassment units of wolf riders and not big combat blocks. So with the small harassment wolfrider units the big problems I see are-

1) Low leadership.
2) Panic tests from shooting and new animosity rules.
3) Poor combat and shooting abilities
4) Count as rare choices
5) Did I mention panic tests?

I agree that these are major issues with the hobbo wolf boys and it does not help that they are also rare choices which I assume reflects the fact that the LoA did not have access to many wolves. However it is not all bad news and they still do have some strengths-

1) Low points cost.
2) Useful early deployment drops.
3) Great redirectors
4) Excellent movement.
5) New rules give them bonuses on the charge.

For me hobbo wolfriders are used for three reasons; to deny scouts close proximity to my expensive and fragile warmachines, to redirect big combat blocks, and probably most importantly to kill war machines. So here are some thoughts on their problems.

Count as rare choices- Not much can be done here, thankfully their low cost means you will in medium/larger games still have points for either a hellcannon or K’Daai Destroyer.

Poor combat and shooting abilities- Compared to many other fast cav units wolfriders are cheap and have more than average movement so you cannot expect them to be great in comb at. That said, in the role of warmachine hunting they are more than capable of killing warmachine crew in hth and might only have some trouble against dwarf warmachine crew (…and hellcannons, don’t send them against hellcannons!) but if armed with spears, a unit of 5 still should be able to win. I would never give them bows as they will basically always hit on a six and str 3 in low number isnt great, rather just give them spears.

Low leadership AND panic tests from shooting and new animosity rules.- This is the real killer IMO and I think if you can get past this problem they can be quite useful. Generally speaking, if wolf riders are going to do their thing its usually by turn 3, otherwise they end up dead or fleeing of the table. So I have devised a strategy that might see wolfriders be workable.

5 Hobgoblin Wolfriders (3 units)
- spears
- musician

3 Bull Centaurs (1 unit)
- Full Command
- Standard of Slavery

The idea here is to run the four units in a sort of arrowhead formation with the Bull Centaurs in the middle. You move the Wolfriders up 10 inches in the vanguard move then on your first turn you march all four units up the flank making sure that the wolfriders are just within 12 inches of your BC so that they get the immune to psychology for the Standard of Slavery. Making them ItP will negate the panic test downside, allow them to effectively fight warmachines that cause fear (TK skull catapult) and make the wolfriders a lot more controllable. Furthermore the BCs are strong and durable and will give the wolfriders a bit of muscle if they need it. Once you get the charge off staying within range of the Standard of Slavery is not so important and if you’re lucky the enemy has deployed their warmachines in close proximity and you can keep yourself in combat for the next couple of turns. While it’s nice to have the units alive at the games end, their fate in the battle is not of great importance as long as the enemy warmachines are dealt with.

I think this strategy only works if you take a a few units of wolfriders to maximize the use of the standard of slavery and requires good game play to execute properly however I believe that this can really work.

…Or you can just take a hobbo khan on wolf. There is one downside to this however and that is that characters are all deployed at the same time and one reason I use hobbo wolfriders is for the extra deployment drops which I find critical in my overall strategy.

Worth a think about and thanks for reading my rant! :hat off

saurus

PS- Magma Cannon = broken

ChungEssence:

"PS- Magma Cannon = broken "

Agreed.

Nice post.

Interesting tactic with the Banner of slavery. I don’t have the models to use for Hobgobbo wolf riders but they certainly fulfil a unique roll… even if it’s only to get the deployment edge (more drops) on your opponent. I personally think the Hobgobbo wolf riders make great distraction units as you have pointed out.

BeeZharr:

You may find a problem with the minimum unit size rules for the wolf riders if you tried to deploy this tactic - I’m sure units of 5 are not permitted.

ryanamandaanna:

no, wolfriders are 5+ for unit size, however you will only be able to take 3 units of them in games of 3000+ points due to the restrictions on rare units. :frowning:

Time of Madness:

Interesting read, but it did not change my mind about the wolf riders. They are absolutely brutal in my opinion.

At 12pts a model (without the upgraded bow/spear/shield) they are very expensive.

Regular goblin wolf riders come in at 10pts a pop and have the abilty to take the shield without losing the fast cav rule. Our wolf riders should have been 10pts with 1pt options just like normal goblin wolf riders.

If you want some speed in the list invest in bull centaurs with the banner of swiftness.

Bottom line is you are way better off taking hellcannons/destroyers for your rare choices over the sub-par and expensive wolf riders.

Time of Madness

Groznit Goregut:

I think if you go with a Destroyer and an offensive army build, you can use the spare Rare points that won’t go towards a war machine to go towards the hobgoblins. If you build a fast and offensive list, you don’t need the Rare war machine too much, anyways.

I think having a small and throw away unit is alright. At what cost, is the real question, but as stated, if you go with a list that doesn’t need the war machines, I think they are good. A unit of 5 costs…60 pts? That’s pretty throw away to me! Oh, toss in a muso as that’s well worth it.

In such an army with fewer units, a unit that can redirect, throw out there, chase war machines, or do a number of odd things, it’s pretty valuable! I’m used to Goblin Wolf Riders and them being 12 or more points. So, paying the same for hobgoblin ones aren’t that bad. Them being in Rare really only means what else are you giving up? Many people don’t even use two rares with what I’ve seen. So, spending 70 pts on a throw away unit isn’t going to hurt anything.

ChungEssence:

They are very usefull and fulfil a role the centaurs don’t.

I’d love to have 12 pt fast cav in my dwarf army that i can field in units of 5.

The early vanguard move is crucial and can help you get them where you want to delay/annoy the opponent.

saurus:

ToM- Hobbo Wolfriders are not an optimal choice for the army but they do add an element of variety. If all you want is to have the optimal army build just make a warmachine spam army with a K’daai Destroyer in it, as we all know that CD gunlines are the most powerful build but such a play style gets stale very quickly. This thread for all intents and purposes is a discussion on how to get the most out of a weaker unit that still has its uses, at least Hobbo Wolfriders are not complete junk like sword and board skeletons or Forsaken.

Groznit Goregut- Yeah I think running a stacked flank with the Wolfriders and Bull Centaur along with a K’daai Destoyer would work nicely, perhaps even further supported by another unit of BC and a Lord on a Bale Taurus would make quite a strong refused flanking force. I also agree with what you stated about "what are you really giving up by taking hobbo wolfriders?"

saurus