Baggronor:
I realise that it can seem helpful to get some numbers on these things but mathhammer is generally unhelpful for making actual choices for real games.
It doesn’t reflect the complex interplay between units, the threats (both real and perceived) from other units and the likelihood of other rules interceding (buff spells, psychology, Crown of Command, etc). It also doesn’t indicate affordability and practicality - just because one type of IG in one formation is great in a fight, doesn’t mean you can afford it in a competitive list, nor does it mean it will regularly find itself in its optimum situation (it basically won’t because M3 and low drop count).
For example, Nurgle Chosen; what is the value in comparing IG with this unit? Why would you ever send IG to fight Nurgle Chosen on equal terms, if at all? Our list has much better solutions for elite infantry, not to mention the likelihood of getting a one-on-one fight vs WoC is pretty slim when you consider how abundant their chariots and super-characters and other support units are.
Comparing to Ironguts is similarly misleading as it doesn’t take into account the inevitable front rank of Ogre characters who absorb all the damage.
Ultimately, the guidelines I go by are this: For IG (a pricey, mandatory infantry unit) you need to do damage. You need to do damage because:
- You need to win combat. You are expensive, so if you lose, you are unlikely to be steadfast (Stubborn Castellans are nice, but they should be considered a bonus, I don’t rely on them). Therefore, to survive, you need to win in as many combats as possible, and in 8th edition, casualties win combats. Combat is also where the most VPs are scored.
- You are slow. You have fewer deployment drops than most armies. You won’t get to choose your fights, and due to the LoA list structure, IG are likely to be the main fighting blocks and hence often pitted against superior enemy units. You have few chaff/moblie units, so fleeing and faffing like Elves is not an option. You need to make sure your overpriced, overmatched Core can at least kill some of the enemy.
- You are not fighting in a vacuum. Your war machines and magic give you the capability to soften hard targets like Monstrous Cav, thin out large enemy units that might overwhelm you, and outright remove threatening single models such as Daemon Princes. If things are going according to plan, IG should not have to engage in equal fights. It doesn’t matter if Skullcrushers do tons of damage to you, you should only need to do a handful of wounds to them to wipe them out after you have softened them up. Or you should be in their flank after frenzy-baiting them with a wolf Khan. Almost every other army does head-to-head combat better than LoA due to numbers, buff spells, re-rolls, points efficiency, unit variety, etc.
- No one is scared of M3, Strength 4, 1A expensive infantry. No one. They’re not scared because if they can’t fight you, they don’t have to, they’ll just shoot you or avoid you; if they can fight you, they’ll just beat you.
- No good player is that worried about 12" range shooting from M3 troops, especially not ones that cost 18pts each. Same goes for 18" range BS3 shooting from 17pt models. Its just rubbish for the points.
Therefore, in all comers situations I use great weapon IG exclusively. They work, maybe not brilliantly, but they’re passable.
I would never consider Ironsworn. 17pts each for 1 Attack, and Special? Still M3 and stompable? Not for me.
Daemonsmith chalice
Daemonsmith scroll
Castellen with survivability
Khan
Khan
36 Hobs
36 Hobs
36 Hobs
32 Ironsworn with razorstandard
Magma
rocket
Hellcannon
Hellcannon
It has magical defense.
It has chaff.
It has flank protection.
It has apowerfull shooting phase.
It has tarpits
lastly it has an elite chaos dwarf unit that can actually get into a fight and win.
Most importantly though it still has that nice 7 deployment drops+ heroes.
It has 7 drops but I feel drop count is irrelevant here as it has only one tactic: shoot and wait. You know how it will deploy, and so does your opponent. It has only one combat threat, which although relatively decent costs a terrifying amount of VPs if destroyed. The general is likely to be deployed near the war machines, and while he has a good LoS roll, staying near the machines means the Hobgoblins can’t push forward if needed without leaving his Inspiring Presence, meaning you can’t play aggressively. He is also only a Lv2 so magic defence is actually shaky, and his spells are less likely to go off vs an enemy Lv4 (unless he 6 dices them, which invites miscasts - not the great friend of CD sorcerers). The shooting is undeniably good, but unlikely to score many VPs directly unless your opponent has lots of high cost single models that stay out of combat for several turns (unlikely as most expensive single model combat units are fast and you have no similar threats of your own, like a Destroyer or Taur’uks, to keep them at arm’s length). Overall, I don’t think it would do well and it could be boring for you to play
In my efforts to get the most out of CDs, I use the below:
Daemonsmith Lv1 Metal with scroll and Charmed Shield
Daemonsmith Lv1 Fire with Enchanted Shield
Castellan BSB with Black Hammer, Dragonhelm, shield and 5+ ward
Khan on wolf
Khan on wolf
21 IG with great weapons, banner and musician
21 IG with great weapons, banner and musician
ID with Hellbound
Magma Cannon
Deathshrieker
Hellcannon
Destroyer
The Daemonsmiths 6 dice Fireball or Searing Doom every turn (yeah, they blow up occasionally but they’re not vital in this list), no one cares about the General’s Ld so he can deploy with the artillery; the Magma Cannon thins out enemy combat units, the Deathshrieker picks off single model units, the Hellcannon does a bit of both; the Khans redirect dangerous targets, threaten war machines, and also shepherd the Destroyer by intercepting enemy redirectors; the Destroyer projects massive threat wherever I want; the ID threatens enemy monsters with its Cannonades and blocks any units the IG can’t fight; the IG mop up the rest.
The ID/Destroyer combo allows me to play (very) aggressively if I want and it has led to the only really fun games I have had with LoA.
In short, I think its dangerous to become too fixated on making IG perform well on their own. They are overpriced and inefficient and need to be employed however best suits your army.