[Archive] Looking to the future of Chaos Dwarfs

Veshnakar:

So with the advent of the Legion of Azgorh we now have a relatively new list, but so when 9th edition rolls around I am curious as to how forgeworld will go about bringing the Legion in line with the new edition. Out of curiousity, because I am not really familiar with warhammer 40k, did their imperial armory lists get updated with the advent of new editions?

What do you guys think will happen?

Murdock129:

There’s also the fact that LoA is rather limited, yet still supposedly sold very well

Now I don’t see Chaos Dwarfs making a more full return soon, but sometime in the long term, give it a few years and then I’d say maybe. After all three or four years before Warhammer Forge’s stuff, most of the community would have scoffed at the idea of Forge World Chaos Dwarfs, hell I mentioned the idea to several people at my FLGS, and most of them scoffed and said that would never happen

gIL^:

i think they will make a compendium for chaos dwarfs like a $30 book with all the rules and fluff without tamurkhan when the time comes.

KingFisher:

I would ask the question.

Given what has been presented within the LoA army list, what units are missing to “round out” what would be needed to make a more complete army possibly published/updated via WD?

My thoughts/wishlisting.

Expanding the army list “linearly/generically” gets you this:

First and most importantly, addressing the biggest hole in the list.
Chaos Dwarf Warriors:
These fill the gaps between the 4 pt goblin and the 12 pt (effectively 14) infernal guard. I figure 8pts per with -1 LD and 1-S (from IG stats) heavy armor, and have to pay 1 pt for S or 2 GW/BB.
This makes massed BB fire viable pt wise, and FG’s stay with the “Elite” IG troops to further differentiate them.

Then the next biggest hole is:
Generic Combat Lord. Offense/allowing for a cheap GT/ride melee lord. I am thinking 200 pts plus Hatred/stubborn/fun fluff rule as a baseline.
Access to all weapon choices at x2 prices, option to ensorcelle any weapon( so he can lead any of the dwarf option units) option to “curse” a shield in blood to make its parry save a 5+ for d3+1 turns. WS6  S5 A5 rest same as S-P.

For added flavor and to round or the lore/options.
Special Character Combat Lord Chaos Dwarf (Defense/Palanquin)
Big LD, greenskins no animosity/itp in bubble, Eternal Hatred/Stubborn/something fluffy. Think Combat Slann with no magic. Rides with 14(incl FC) Infernal Ironsworn (counts as 6 sworn carrying on 40x 60 base). No thoughts on special gear, however total cost of the unit is say 525 with the lord.

Special Character Bull Centaur Hero (Offense)
Give him Unstoppable Assault, d3+1 Impact HITs, black shard armor, Some special Lore type item like the gauntlets of some mean dude, for a +1 S/WS bonus with the rolls on 1 to hit, hit friendlies. Tuar’ruk stats from there.

Special Character Hobgoblin Combat Hero (Flavor/Greenskin Heavy list) Some Sorta Oglah or Ghazak type thing, like the goblin wolf rider special character he would make one unit actually worth while compared to single khans. Not sure how.

Now the list could be further expanded by updating the Green Skin selection choices from the recent OnG list. This would allow us to add significant “flavor” to the list.

Specifically I would like to see green skin choices that represent a more “offensive but dies a lot” option. No war Machines however, I prefer the idea of the Slave drivers having the guns to the green skins backs at all times.

The big thing would be some sort of “Chaos Dwarf bred” Black Orc (special choice). Something like Heavy armor and AHW. I would argue great weapons or shields belong on Dwarfs to neutralize the Orcs size and strength advantage fluff wise. These BO’s would act as an offensive compliment to the Dwarf’s as primarily defensive choices. Maybe 14 pts per?

Within this hierarchy the Infernal Ironsworn would need a slight boost (unbreakable comes to mind) to make them justify their Chaos Warrior costs.

I don’t really see a need for standard Orcs or goblins, I would fluff wise say they stick to the mines and such and we only need the BO’s to fight for us.

Thoughts?

Rickie:

I live in the pressent, no need to worry about the future. But my guess is that 9’th will be more like 8,5. And we will keep playing with the unchanged loa list for many years.

Bitterman:

Yeah, don’t hold your breath for more CD stuff from GW and/or FW any time soon. FW are filling out the choices, but apart from that they got told to stop doing anything - certain high-ups at GW don’t like the Chaos Dwarfs and don’t want too much attention given to them.

9th Ed is at least two years away yet; I wouldn’t worry too much about that, either.

Baggronor:

What do you guys think will happen?
They might release an FAQ if the list is unusable in a theoretical 9th ed, but I wouldn't expect a new book unless new minis are on the cards.

I hope against hope they just re-do all the freaking army books this edition rather than just release another edition.

SafetyTurtle:

I know they updated the Krieg and Chaos Renegade lists when 5th edd came around in a free pdf on the site so wouldn’t say it’s completely impossible the same could happen for CDs.

Kera foehunter:

Due to the lack of Female Chaos dwarfs your fate is doomed…

:slight_smile:

cornixt:

I see LoA as being nothing more than a get-you-by list. GW will eventually release a proper army book of CDs and LoA will end up being an old army list variant (technically it is currently a regular variant list). Maybe LoA will inspire GW to do some similar changes, or maybe GW will have noticed that the army plays completely differently to the old army (and has very few similar units) and yet has been siezed as the de facto army list, so they will be comfortable starting from scratch with a new list.

MLP:

What do you guys think will happen?
They might release an FAQ if the list is unusable in a theoretical 9th ed, but I wouldn't expect a new book unless new minis are on the cards.

I hope against hope they just re-do all the freaking army books this edition rather than just release another edition.


Baggronor
I think that because they're redoing the books in hardback all of them will be done before an edition change. It would be messy to have different books for that change.

@Kingfisher I don't think the army really needs a middling core troop. I definitely wouldn't say it's the biggest hole in the army either. Same with the Combat Lord. Although it might seem to be a big gap in the army it does help keep it unique and different from others.

Saying that I would like to see another core troop choice and maybe a different lord. Just not something to fit in a gap.

I don't reckon the army list would suffer much in one edition change. It seems to me that the core rules change a lot over two editions but not so much between each one.

Even if forgeworld chaos dwarfs sold really well I expect they will still want to move on to something new which will earn them more money than just adding some more chaos dwarfs. From what I gather they have a great many ideas rolling around their design room floor.

Vardan Painkiller:

i am certain that 9th edition will be in 2 years, before all books are remade

Murdock129:

Well then maybe we can lobby for a Chaos Dwarf full book in 9th edition with Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Blunderbusses, Hobgoblins, an updated Taurus and Lammasu, and other such stuff in it from GW not FW

Hell, it’d be the first GW army book I’ve bought in years

Thommy H:

This is like deja vu…didn’t this happen, like, four years ago?

Grimstonefire:

As I understand it, 9th ed will not fundamentally change the game in such a way as to make any books unplayable.

So 8th ed books should all be playable in 9th ed with hardly any errata.

This is how it was described to me at the release of 8th anyway.

So the LoA should survive even if it doesn’t get updated.

Thommy H:

I think it’s very unlikely they’d release all these full-colour, hardback books and replace them within two years, yeah - the new Armies books feel very definitive to me. I’m not so cynical about GW to think that’s some sort of elaborate con, either. If I believed anything like that, I wouldn’t purchase anything from them at all on general principle.

Bitterman:

While I think it’s clear GW are long past the time of hitting the big red reset button and invalidating army books, so that much at least is true… I have to suspect anything said at the start of 8th about what 9th will look like should probably be considered a fragile prediction at best. It was only a couple of years before 8th was released that they stated in print in White Dwarf that they were pretty happy with the Warhammer rules and probably wouldn’t change much ever again… then 8th was the biggest change since probably 1st to 2nd Ed! Granted, that was the public face of things, which may not match what you were told if it was more of a private comment from someone ‘in the know’… but still, in four years a lot can change.

Thommy H:

True, although the pattern has generally been to do a big change up, followed by what is effectively a “.5” Edition, followed by another big change up. 4th was the beginning of the modern period of the game, 5th was a refinement of that (there were literally, like, two changes to the basic rules or something and everything else was just clarification), 6th was a total reboot and rebalancing of all armies, 7th was just tidying up (again, only a couple of major changes - five models to a rank, etc.) and now we have 8th, which didn’t invalidate Armies books, but did require quite extensive FAQs and was a pretty fundamental restructuring of the game. So, following that pattern, 9th should really be just 8.5, with the same ethos and design goals, but fixing some small niggles (I bet disruption will negate Steadfast in 9th, for example).

Marduk:

(I bet disruption will negate Steadfast in 9th, for example).

Thommy H
I hope!

I think Steadfast is a good concept but they overdid it a bit. Disruption should negate Steadfast

Far2Casual:

Again, I don’t see many things lacking in the LoA list except a fighty lord and some special characters. I’ve said it and will say it again but the Ogres book (8th ed) does not have more choices than the LoA, and 6 specials + 5 rare is more than many armies out there. For base troops we have 6 effective choices (IG with HW+S, GW, Fireglaives, Blunderbusses, Hobgob with bows, Hobgobs with Shields) and in many other books they would be described as separate choices (like Swordsmen, Spearmen, Halberders, Crossbowmen, Handgunners and Militia with Empire).

There is enough variety in the list to build many different armies, if you really want to.