[Archive] Main Chaos Dwarf Styles of Play

Baggronor:

The usual way: BBs, a few blocks, Earthshakers, slaves, combat and magic. Slow em, shoot em, zap em and let them bounce off when they get in close. The most effective option. :cheers

Chargy hitty: Bull centaurs, wolf riders and a Taurus, fast attack. A bit of a dead end tactically imo as it will always struggle against armies like WoC, trying to beat them at their own game, but a lot of fun.

Dwarf spam: Nothing but a Mage general, a BSB and as many Chaos Dwarf warriors and slaves as you can muster, maybe with a few BTs thrown in. Its actually terrifying, thats a lot of infantry.

Unlike, say, Daemons or Vampires, the true strength of the Chaos Dwarf list lies not in having a bunch of really powerful special rules and units
I’m getting pretty sick of this ‘VCs win by turning up’ attitude that seems so prevalent. Yes, they’re hard, no they’re not auto win, learn how to beat them.
Ironically, I feel that despite being a Ravening Hordes list, if we had more books designed the way the Chaos Dwarf list is, we’d have far more balanced and entertaining games; that is to say that games would be more about who is the better general than who has more dirty combos and exploits up their sleeve.
So WS3 2pt infantry that doesn’t cause panic is balanced (in a list that also has access to Dwarf infantry)? A Stone Thrower that halves enemy movement and stops shooting is balanced (if that isn’t a dirty trick in a game of movement I don’t know what is)? Heroes with Ld10? :slight_smile:

The CD list was far and away one of the most open to abuse lists. The twin Earthshaker, 8 BT, 10 levels of magic, BBs and 40 redirecting Hobgobs army of doom was absolutely horrendous. :cheers

I’m pretty glad we don’t have lists like it anymore, I just wish they’d do an updated book.

Hobgoblyn:

Chaos Dwarfs were created in 4th edition where the concept behind army books was “let’s throw in whatever random @#$* we think would be cool!” and trying to cover every concievable base rather than the newer concept of “here’s how this army should fight, here are units that support that method”.

As a direct result there is, don’t fool yourself, no “Chaos Dwarf way of fighting”. Rather instead the army book has a myriad of almost random units that do every which thing and don’t support each other nearly as well as any other army out there. Since the units go every which way, I suppose it is perfectly possible to create an army that does most of the things any Warhammer army is capable of and call it “the Chaos Dwarf way of fighting”, but really… its nothing more than a subjective view and taken in its entirity the list wouldn’t really support it. (whatever “it” is)

Alan the evil:

Well… i’m totally agree with renufus

In my opinion we have just some free choices…

I mean that we absolutly need of hobbos wolf riders and BC for control flanks on the field. And we must have earthshaker and not less than 4 bolt throwers.

Very important is also the presence of not less than 4 level or magic in our army and 2 units of hobbos slaves.

Where we are free to choose is about composition of infantry:

if we choose warriors, units must to be not less than 20 with command group, where i prefer to equip them with great weapons (we are not compelled to use them, but they could be usefull in some cases)… instead BB must to be not less than 15 and usually i don’t use command group. I don’t like to use 4 models ranks: if we need S5 we can always reorganize them for fire enemy when we are not under a dungerous charge.

I prefear to use unit of 20 slaves beacuse of ranks: it’s not unusual that they can stand on a charge with 3 starting ranks and LD 10 of our general.

At least we can put some more war machine if we want a great wall of fire against our enemy… but I want to be versatile and give form of my armylist based on lord champion choice:

if we want more magic we can put a 4 level sorcerer with a BSB or BC like 4th choice… or if we want a great taurus we can use a hero in a unit

of warriors like general…

I don’t like the idea of a great taurus and 3 sorcerers because of we put far away from core units LD 10 and we have a lots of points, that count even like a general, around the table that can be targetted from everything on the field. I prefear a hero, 3 sorcerers and use all the free point for more troops.

My favorite choice is 4 level sorcerer with 2 other 2 level sorcerers and BC hero with armor of ghazrak and great weapon.

P.S. I apologize for every grammatical mistake i did… but i’m italian :hat off

Swissdictator:

The other nice thing is some of our coolest figures/concepts are also at least useful… if not downright good.

A lord on a Great Taurus looks great, and is a cool/fun idea. Plus it’s a boon to most Chaos Dwarf armies. Bull Centaurs as well.

Hobgoblin Wolf Riders suffer from only two things in my opinion: 10+ and animosity. Each have their own little side bonus however. Plus the sheer mobility, and depending on how you equip them, are still fairly cheap. Plus by not causing panic if they flee, they have more tactical flexibility then other armies have with their fast cav.

The nice thing about a Chaos Dwarf army is you can usually field something you enjoy and can “get into”, and still do relatively well.

While limited magic items is restrictive, we don’t get used to having them either. So we think a little better tactically, don’t rely on them, and have points free for other stuff.

Groznit Goregut:

Hi Alan! Oh, don’t worry about your grammar. it’s fine and your English is much better than my

wallacer:

I normally play a denied flank with CD Warriors holding the line and fast moving stuff (Bull Centaurs, Wolf Riders and Taurus) moving down my one existing flank.

Meanwhile, Earthshaker and Bolt Throwers soften up the enemy.

Groznit Goregut:

I normally play a denied flank with CD Warriors holding the line and fast moving stuff (Bull Centaurs, Wolf Riders and Taurus) moving down my one existing flank.
Meanwhile, Earthshaker and Bolt Throwers soften up the enemy.

wallacer
How many units do you take down the flank? How does this setup do for you? How many Bull Centaurs? How resistant are they to shooting? I've found boar boyz to be pretty resilient with T4 and AS 3+. BC only have 1 less AS. What do you put on your Great Taurus Lord? How does he handle shooting (besides cannon balls)? Are you usually charging on Turn 2? How do you use your hobgoblin units? I'm used to 5 gobbo riders, but 10 hobgoblins with a better armor save might be more useful. You don't get spears, though.

Alan the evil:

Well Groznit…

For sure you don’t like one single earthsaker… you spend more than half of your point in fast units (great taurus, 2 x 10+ BC and wolf riders with BSB): why you must need of something that brakes your enemy?

In this contest Death rocket may reach to have a sense: because of the lack of heartshaker, put in your army a template war machine it’s a good choice.

Look to this fast chaos dwarf army it’s pretty strange… it reminds me my HtH fighting skaven army: something of totally different form the usual way to play the army… but sometimes it works!!

just a question: don’t you feel a bit uncovered from magic and shoots?

I mean: you have 4 fast and powerfull units but with few models and no more than 4+ armor save. You always give one or two turns to the enemy to shoot to your army (ah-ah!!! we find a reason for having and earthsaker so?? the enemy shooting??). DO you play this list because it’s efficient or fast&furios&funny??

Groznit Goregut:

Well Groznit...

For sure you don't like one single earthsaker...

Alan the evil
I never said I didn't like an earthshaker! I just want to use 2 units of bull centaurs, instead. I wish that I could have all three.
just a question: don't you feel a bit uncovered from magic and shoots?
I mean: you have 4 fast and powerfull units but with few models and no more than 4+ armor save. DO you play this list because it's efficient or fast&furios&funny??

Alan the evil
At the moment, I play an Orc and Goblin list that has a Warlord on Wyvern and two big boar boyz units. I find that they are usually charging on Turn 2. It's always better to get the first turn because otherwise they get two turns of shooting / magic on me. I have found, though, that my boar boyz are pretty tough and don't take that much damage. It's important to have all your fast and heavy units all together so that only one side of the enemy's army can fire at it. With T4, I have found that they don't take as much damage as I would have thought. Boar boyz only have an AS 3+, which is just one better than bull centaurs. Sure, that can make a big difference, but I have found that it would take a serious amount of effort to reduce one unit down to half. That would clear the rest of units to be fine and the one bull centaur unit shot would be at the average size that most people play them at.

So, with my boar boyz and warlord on wyvern have been pretty effective. The dwarf warlord on great taurus is even tougher, has a higher leadership. Also, the boar centaurs are tougher in combat than the boar boyz!

Groznit Goregut:

I just found the wiki on Tactics and I have some questions. At the beginning when it talks about Chaos Dwarf Warriors, it says we need TWO core unit choices. Where is the list that tells us how many we need? I always assumed it was THREE units. If I only need two, that makes me a much happier general!

I have also noticed disparaging comments about musicians. I’m quite surprised by this. I do understand that they cost 10 pts per unit, as opposed to the cheaper amounts I am used to with OnG. Still, standard OnG strategy is to always get at least a musician for every unit. When your leadership is so low, that extra point to rally is quite important! I have also lost track of the combats that I have won due to the fact that I have a musician, too. If you are talking about a 40 pt unit of hobgobs, though, I don’t see increasing the cost by 10 for it.

I’m also curious as to the types of Orcs and Goblins we can take. The .pdf says “Orc Boyz and Goblins”. I assume that means only the unit type called Orc Boyz. The wiki tactica talks about using Arrer Boyz. They are classified as a different unit type. Does that mean we can also use them, as well? If so, then what stops us from using Goblin Wolfriders, too?

In the wiki, bull centaurs are called “heavy cavalry”, but I wouldn’t do that. I figure they are medium cavalry. Light is anything with 5+ AS. Medium tends to be 3-4+ AS. Heavy is 2+ or better. Sure, they hit hard, but I wouldn’t call them heavy cav.

I’m still working through the document, though. I see there are general army strategies there, which was what I was basically looking for.

Groznit Goregut:

OK…I just read the full wiki and the tactics offered didn’t differ much from the basic defensive style I expected to find.

two_heads_talking:

Chaos Dwarfs were created in 4th edition where the concept behind army books was "let's throw in whatever random @#$* we think would be cool!" and trying to cover every concievable base rather than the newer concept of "here's how this army should fight, here are units that support that method".

Hobgoblyn
Really? Which developer are you quoting? Truely, you are speaking out the side of your mouth with nothing but your own opinion right?

Having playtested many of the 4th edition armies, I can cleary say that you are completely off-base with your above comment.

Alan the evil:

@groznit

i can answer about what i know (or at least how we play in italy)…

as soon as it possible i gonna post documents about what i’m saying (i’m must to go to my club).

core unit : not less than 3… and obviously only chaos dwarves…

musician: it really costs 10.

O&G: we can have only infantry of goblins (no dark), orks,and one unit of black orks.

BC: I don’t care what they say about… THEY ROCK!!

Groznit Goregut:

Thanks Alan! I figure that the wiki is outdated or something. I would LOVE to only have 2 core dwarf units.<br>
How many CD players are from Italy? It seems you are the 2nd or 3rd that I’ve seen!

Yeah, Bull Centaurs do seem to rock! I haven’t played with them yet, though. They have a better leadership than boar boyz. No Animosity. They are faster. If they use hw+shield, they have the same 3+ AS. No Animosity. They can use great weapons to get S6! They are cheaper than boar boyz. Did I mention no Animosity?

So, it seems that no one has really tried this type of a list before? Well, Baggronor did say he ran a very similar list. I will have to PM him on his thoughts. Xander said it looked like a fun list. I can’t believe that no one else has tried it?

tetnis:

I think it sounds like a fun list, I just think lots of people are reluctant to give up our staples (blunderbuss lines, earthshakers, etc.) This could definitely shake things up, and id love to hear from someone with experience running it.

Fallen246:

Thanks Alan! I figure that the wiki is outdated or something. I would LOVE to only have 2 core dwarf units.\

Groznit Goregut
In a 1,000 point list you only need 2.

In a 2,000 point list you need 3, 3,000 point list you need 4 and so forth.

(Also, as a note, a 2500 point force only needs 3 chaos dwarf units still, as it isn't yet a 3,000pt force.)

Alan the evil:

Fallen says

In a 1,000 point list you only need 2.

In a 2,000 point list you need 3, 3,000 point list you need 4 and so forth.

Well…

I was not clear: when i talk about my army I always talk about army between 1999 and 2999 pt… FIGW plays 2250 pt lists

Thanx Fallen for point it.

@groznit

how many CD italian players??

Once a time i met a guy who gave me a great taurus: he was the only one i never met who played CD. Now he’s married and he’s off.

But I read in some results someone plays CD and i hope a day to meet them.

matt:

Does the banner of slavery worth it when you are using a gunline army? Or is it still to expensive?

and about Black Orcs. Do you guys use them? I mean I heard a lot of orc players saying they are expensive (OMG well I play elves I got used to it:D) so they don’t really use them. How is it with cd?

Alan the evil:

banner of slavery is too much expensive…

it works only with slaves…which kind of panic test do you afraid for your slaves??

black orks are powerfull, but too much expensive

13 pt per model - nake

14 pt with shields

20 pt the champion

a unit of 20 with command group costs more than 300 points

i put them out of my list and i found place for 15 BB, 2 bolt thrower and 2 unit of 20 hobbos…

what do you think about it??

I even try to put a little 10 unit of black orks with champion like guard of my core unit…

but for 160 pt i still prefear 15 BB because they works one turn before with infantry

all in my humble opinion:hat off

Swissdictator:

I agree with Alan, Black Orcs are a little too expensive for my tastes. I find Orcs or even Orc Big Uns with shields to be a much better option for the points.