[Archive] My 2250 List against Bretonnia

ross_lionheart:

This is the 2250 list that I intend to use against my opponents Bretonnian Army.��The core of my army will consist of Chaos Dwarf Warriors and Orcs.��These units have fairly large unit sizes and should be able to hold up the knights and hopfully destroy them in combat.��The smaller units of hobgoblins may be used as bait or play a similar role to an empires detachment.

The characters that I have selected to use in the army are mostly magical.��The sorcerer lord will be using the lure of shadow and the other 2 priests will be using lore of metal to get through the armour of the Knights.��I have also included a BC Hero within the list to increase the Bull Centaur Units Combat potential.��

Artillery will be very basic and I have included 4 bolt throwers to rip through the armour of the knights and a earthshaker cannon to slow them down.��This should enable me to get the charge with my Bull Centaurs.

The army will stay stationary as the sorcerers and artillery blast away at the knights.��Once the knights reach my units by turn three or four their numbers will be greatly reduced.��

All comments welcome…

2250 Chaos Dwarf List:

Characters:

1 Shadow Lord (General) @ 275 Points

- Level 4

- 2 Dispel Scrolls

- Black Gem Of Gnar

1 Metal Priest @ 175 Points

-��2 Power Stone

1 Metal Priest @ 150 Points

- 1 Power Stone

Bull Centaur Hero @ 134 Points

- Armour of Gazrakh & Great Weapon

Core Units:

24 Chaos Dwarf warriors @ 246 Points

- Hand Weapons, Heavy Armour and shields

- FCMD��

- War Banner (Plus one combat resolution) @ 25 Points

24 Chaos Dwarf warriors @ 246 Points

- Hand Weapons, Heavy Armour and shields

- FCMD��

15 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbusses @ 180 Points

- Blunderbusses & Heavy Armour

20 Hobgoblins (Disposable Unit) @ 50 Points

-��Hand Weapons

20 Hobgoblins (Disposable Unit) @ 50 Points

-��Hand Weapons

Special Units:

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers @ 60 Points

- 4 hobgoblin crewmembers armed with hand weapons.

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers @ 60 Points

- 4 hobgoblin crewmembers armed with hand weapons.

20 Black Orc’s @ 298 Points

- Heavy Armour & Armed To the teeth

- FCMD

20 Orc Big Un’s @ 236 Points @ 236 Points

- Light Armour & 2 Choppas

- FCMD

Rare Units:

1 Earthshaker Cannon @ 110 Points

- 3 Chaos Dwarf Crew armed with Hand Weapons & Heavy Armour

9 Bull Centaurs @ 204 Points

- Great Weapons, Hand Weapons, Heavy Armour & Shields

- Champion & Standard

Total Points:��2224 Points

metro_gnome:

well pointz costs are off all over the place…
a metal priest with two stones is gonna run you 115… 150 if level 2… but never 175…
your hobbie units only cost 40… unless they are 25 big… which i recommend…

the war banner is better suited to your BCs… the CD unit has full ranks… doesn’t need the warbanner…

ross_lionheart:

well pointz costs are off all over the place...
a metal priest with two stones is gonna run you 115... 150 if level 2... but never 175...
your hobbie units only cost 40... unless they are 25 big... which i recommend...

the war banner is better suited to your BCs... the CD unit has full ranks... doesn't need the warbanner...

metro_gnome
Apart from increasing the hobgoblin units to 25 each, can you suggest anyhting else metro?

metro_gnome:

and apart from moving the warbanner :hat off

well you know how i feel about Blorcs… make em regular boyz…
and get your GWs on the warriors… or a whole other unit of BBs maybe…

ross_lionheart:

and apart from moving the warbanner :hat off

well you know how i feel about Blorcs... make em regular boyz...
and get your GWs on the warriors... or a whole other unit of BBs maybe...

metro_gnome
Yea, I think Im going to drop the black Orcs. They are a good investment if they do their job but if they are destroyed Im losing alot of Victory Points.

With the 298 free points Im going to give the CD Warriors Great Weapons and increase the Big Un unit from 20 models to 25...

Do you think I should consider using a Lord on Great Taurus or perhaps a BC Lord instead of my current character choices?

metro_gnome:

well i’ve never faced bretts… it seems like magic would be an asset…

still you could try to upgrade the BC hero to lord… same equipment… if thats how your group rolls…
and take a third priest… i’d stick to metal…
8 dice should be a presence… and the BC lord is quite hitty…

AGPO:

Your list seems a bit too mixed for my tastes. I would drop the Bull centaurs and blunderbussers completely. With the excess points take a second earthshaker and bulk out all your units. Take as much armour as possible. I would prefer a CD BSB to the BC hero, simply as he stays with your lines and stops them moving. Never underestimate the value of re-rolled Ld 10 against an army which relies on the charge to break units in one go. Since your army relies on slaves alot its also wise to invest in the banner of slavery for either a warrior unit or the BSB.

Your bull centaurs would just be one unit of cavalry against 5 or 6 and would be roundly slaughtered by the more or less guaranteed superior rank bonus and number of models atacking from the bretonians. The blunderbusses won’t get an shots off (except maybe as a stand and shoot against the knights) and even then if they lose one model to any bretonian magic/shooting (and there is SOME) their strength is reduced to 4, which against models with a 2+ save aint really enough.

I’d go for the blorcs and give them shields over the big’uns. That way they get a 5+save even against charging knights, whereas big’uns just die. Make units US 25 at least, that way, even a unit of 12 knights will be outnumbered, and if the bolt throwers come off then they’re losing ranks fairly rapidly. I actually like the warbanner on the warriors, as it means the bretonians will lose 1pt more of Ld when you beat them (and if you hold them, you WILL BEAT THEM), and any unit which flees loses the blessing to protect them against bolt throwers/earthshakers. I like GWs but don’t forget the blessing bumps up to 5+ against attacks of S5 or better, so it is sometimes better to use HW&S. Still give yourself the options though.

qwe50:

seems like no many of you have playd against brets so i’ll make a battle report (played against them last tournement) when i got time

keep the war banner on the warriors, the sorcerer lord is a good idere but he should have lore of metal and he should not have the black gem, you need a BSB i would take out one the sorcerers. brets always have Lord, BSB, sorcerer, ? hero / sorcerer that meen 8 pow will do.

i think you should take:

Metal Lord (General) @ 275 Points

Level 4, Dispel Scrolls, 2 Power Stone

Metal Priest @ 175 Points

2. level, Black Gem Of Gnar

CD BSB

Armour of Gazrakh, biting blade

Bull Centaur Hero

Great Weapon

I also think a CD lord with opsidant blade and Armour of Gazrakh could be an idere

the no save S4 really kill knights and i dont like having Ld 9 if you take a BC lord

AGPO:

I agree with what qwe50 said except for the BC. It may seem that I have a grudge against them but I just think that in an army this size they cost more points than they’re worth. I just don’t think they compete against Earthshakers or DoW heavy cavalry. Replace them with the bane of knights - eathshakers. They move at 7" a turn, get no armour save and could flee and lose their blessing if they panic. Get a second Earthshaker and another CD hero/sorcerer and then spend the remaining points bulking out tose units or on some wolfboyz

metro_gnome:

there can be no doubt that the earthshaker is a superior choice to the BCs…

but if you play 2 ES very often you will soon find yourself without any friends to play against…

i do not believe the BSB is a “requirement” below 3K… your army is testing at Ld10…

i do however like the idea of the obsidian blade… it is normally a completely over priced item…

but against bretts it may be just the thing to even the score…

qwe50:

against brets a BSB is needed - you will loose with 2-4 when they charge

ross_lionheart:

:0��Ive updated the list a little bit, Ive been informed that the battle size might move form 2250 up to 2500…Im not sure what to get with the extra points…any suggestions?

Personally I think thinking about giving the CD warriors great weapons and chaging the big un unit to 25 Black Orcs with heavy armour, shields and great weapons…

2250 Chaos Dwarf Force:

Characters:

1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord (Level 4) @ 275 Points

- Lore Of Metal/Death��

- Black Gem Of Gnarr

- 2 Dispel Scrolls

- Leads the Unit of 24 CD Warriors

Chaos Dwarf Metal Priest (Level 2) @ 125 Points

- Lore of Metal

- Power Stone

Chaos Dwarf Metal Priest (Level 2) @ 125 Points

- Lore Of Metal

- Power Stone

Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaur Hero @ 134 Points

- Armour of Gazrakh & Great Weapon��

Core Units:

24 Chaos Dwarf warriors @ 246 Points

- Hand Weapons, Heavy Armour and shields

- FCMD

- War Banner (Plus one combat resolution) @ 25 Points

24 Chaos Dwarf warriors @ 246 Points

- Hand Weapons, Heavy Armour and shields

- FCMD

15 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbusses @ 180 Points

- Blunderbusses

- Heavy Armour

25 Hobgoblins (Disposable Unit) @ 50 Points

- Hand Weapons

25 Hobgoblins (Disposable Unit) @ 50 Points

- Hand Weapons

10 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders (Support Unit) @ 140 Points

- Light Armour, Shields & Hand Weapons

- Champion

Special Units:

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers @ 60 Points

- 4 hobgoblin crewmembers armed with hand weapons.

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers @ 60 Points

- 4 hobgoblin crewmembers armed with hand weapons.

1 Death Rocket @ 80 Points

- 2 Chaos Dwarf crew with heavy armour and hand weapons.��

20 Orcs Big Un’s @ 236 Points

- Light Armour and 2 Choppas

- FCMD

Rare Units:

1 Earthshaker Cannon @110 Points

- 3 Chaos Dwarf Crew member armed with hand weapons and

heavy armour.

1 Earthshaker Cannon @110 Points

- 3 Chaos Dwarf Crew member armed with hand weapons and

heavy armour.

Total Points: 2250 Points

Uzkul Werit:

I go with the increased numbers on the Orc unit (20 is a little thin on the ground. One round of good shooting and they’ll leg it) and a Musician for your Wolf Riders.

AGPO:

I agree with Uzkul, but overall I think this list is a definate improvement. The lore of shadows is an often maligned but definitely powerful lore, and useful for getting that suprise charge. I wouldn’t decide on my magic until I knew more about my opponents choices though.

Uzkul Werit:

Lore of Metal would be better than Lore of Fire in this case. Spirit of the Forge on Knights, anyone?

metro_gnome:

well consistent spirit requires a level 4…
rather use rule for character sniping and that only requires level 2s… but bring two of them…

i dont think anyone is advocating fire here…
but multi-tool shadow can be great at getting important characters/units into/out of the action…
and the magic missile does ignore the armor saves…

oboudd:

Ross I hate to tell you this but your army is 2227points and your new army list lies it says from 2250 to 2500.