zobo1942:
If someone was commissioned to create the ‘empire upgrade sprue’ (and didn’t do the work ‘on spec’, which would be stupid) did their part of the work - and then GW told him off, then that person should seek legal counsel to get payment for their work.
Or, they should buy a share of GW stock and show up at every AGM and talk publicly and loudly about how the company is screwing people. Until they get paid.
That is crap.
cornixt:
Or they could create some Empire-size bodies and sell all the parts to another casting company. As soon as it becomes known (through word of mouth, not formal advertising) that they are interchangable, I’d expect quite a few sales from Empire players.
Xander:
If you are in need of someone to help you set up a web site, let me know. I helped Bagg with his.
Your sculpting is what inspired me to start chaos dwarfs back at Hand of Hashut.
snowblizz:
That is what Kev has done with a pirate he was commissioned to sculpt. They have to rework the models though to be different enough from GW IP. Some models I imagine this would be possible, but the guy who made all the empire upgrade parts must be annoyed.There's actually quite the market out there for "replacements parts". As long as you don't use anything directly TMed or a direct copy of a GW part it seems pretty open?
They will probably want to sell it somehow, as these guys are full time freelancers as far as I know.
Grimstonefire
Baggronor:
So, something interesting. It seems I was rejected regardless of my sculpting skills as they stopped using freelance sculptors in early Nov. There's quite a few freelance people now (Kev & Steve that I know of) that are holding onto WIP models they will never be paid for and cannot sell (not as cast models anyway). Not sure if it is because Kev walked out on them after Rick left.Ahhh, the wonderful world of freelance creatives; first to get screwed, last to get paid. Number one reason to start your own miniatures line imo, working for other people sucks unless you're on a salary (and even then, its not great). That way, you don't get nit-pickers whingeing about the look of the figures either.
Damnit. I would have worked for them for considerably less than these 'professionals'. Why the hell they didn't just say this in their email to me I don't know!?.That's how the whole industry goes tits-up though, like with illustration; the freshly-graduated students undercut the pros and then no one can make a living because the newcomers drove the price way down.
I know that if I were doing something for a client who turned out to be a deadbeat and decided not to pay me (games workshop in the above scenario) than I'd have no problem at all re-purposing the work to suit someone else's requirements. And I don't think it would even matter what you signed - as the deadbeat client has essentially 'nulled' the contract by deciding they don't want the work.With illustrations, I own it all until I get paid; its also usually moot as no one pays me on time but the work gets used anyway. But technically, yes, if they don't pay you, they have breached the contract and you can do whatever you want with it. Unless you signed something else which states otherwise... probably likely considering GW seems to be run by Satan when it comes to IP.
Or, they should buy a share of GW stock and show up at every AGM and talk publicly and loudly about how the company is screwing people. Until they get paid.I believe that's a variation of the Yakuzas' favourite tactic ;) Buy one share, show up at the AGM and intimidate everyone.
If you are in need of someone to help you set up a web site, let me know. I helped Bagg with his.Help me change the font on my folio site pleeeease! I still can't find it lol, searched through everything in the back end, can't make heads nor tails of it.
starscream:
Or they could create some Empire-size bodies and sell all the parts to another casting company. As soon as it becomes known (through word of mouth, not formal advertising) that they are interchangable, I'd expect quite a few sales from Empire players.You can produce and advertise conversion kits as being gw compatible, hell you can even show it. Thats how after market car parts can be sold.
cornixt
zobo1942:
The undercutting by noobies is a big problem - I missed out on a contract because someone said they’d do the work for $9 per hour. HUH?!
I’ve known people with salaried positions who have been let go when a freshly-graduated person shows up and says “I’ll work for you for free - FOR A YEAR.” Since they still live at home with mommy and daddy, it doesn’t matter to them - they just treat it as another year of their education.
Sucks if you’re trying to keep a roof over your head and food in the bellies of your children.
Baggronor:
The undercutting by noobies is a big problem - I missed out on a contract because someone said they'd do the work for $9 per hour. HUH?! I've known people with salaried positions who have been let go when a freshly-graduated person shows up and says "I'll work for you for free - FOR A YEAR." Since they still live at home with mommy and daddy, it doesn't matter to them - they just treat it as another year of their education.Yeah, takes the p*ss really. It'll be them being let go next time, in favour of someone else super-cheap.
BTW if you are looking for someone to produce your minis can I recommend http://www.fouraminiatures.com/Looks like someone needs a Xander website ;)
nitroglysarine:
-quite nice basis for a inferno golem me thinks!!
Also these guys are awesome for some i’p guard. love these models.
cornixt:
You can produce and advertise conversion kits as being gw compatible, hell you can even show it. Thats how after market car parts can be sold.Show me someone who advertises models as being GW compatible and I'll show you someone who is about to be contacted by GW lawyers and told to stop. Even people who scratchbuild terrain aren't allowed to call it Warhammer-scale without the wrath of geedub.
starscream
Grimstonefire:
There is a company that does this exclusively
http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/
I read about how it is they do this, the guy running it paid a solicitor to investigate it all properly. GW owns the IP to complete models, but not the IP to component parts (apparently). Something that could easily be transferred to warhammer (by someone with balls of steel and plenty of money :~). The guy had a lot of legal threats, but it seems there is nothing GW can do.
Quite how it is that chapterhouse is allowed to use GW terms to sell I don’t know (like ‘Rhino doors’ ‘salamander space marines’ etc, perhaps they are not copyright or registered?
Related to the empire models above, if the sculpts are based on copyright images used as concept art (unlikely) they couldn’t sell them. I actually contacted Steve over on Frothers to ask if he would consider selling his non-cast WIP WF things and he said no for legal reasons.
Why anyone would buy FW empire upgrade sprues when the Perry war of the roses models are nicer and a lot cheaper I don’t know.
Edit. I did a quick search:
Legal Issues.
Guys, we just spent $1000 to get these issues looked at by an IP attorney. For the record, they sorta smiled at GWs Legal page, alot of it isnt correct in legal terms, so they basically dont explain themselves at all.
Needless to say, GW doesnt explain the real legal laws and use ignorance of the public to scare off competition.
Salamanders, Rhino, Predator and many other words are not GW IP. You can use them, as well as some trademarks like Space Marine etc, you just have to know the legal rules to do it correctly
zobo1942:
@Baggronor: Here’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about - I got this response today: “You have a lot of valuable experience and I wish I could have used you at this time, but unfortunately I had to settle for someone with less qualifications.”
Insane.
Thommy H:
Legal issues and accusations of IP-facism aside, I think we can all agree that flogging stuff that is a blatant rip-off of another company’s stuff is morally questionable and creatively bankrupt. Do your own work. Chapterhouse Studios get no sympathy from me.
zobo1942:
I think the comparison to after-market auto parts is a good one.
I’m just on my way out the door to spend $700 on snow tires. I shudder to think what I’d be paying if I had to buy them from the dealer.
Baggronor:
Zobo, I got a good one today that is becoming drearily common: " I’m afraid we don’t really have a budget for artwork this time around". I’d like to see them approach absolutely any other trade in existence without a budget :~
Legal issues and accusations of IP-facism aside, I think we can all agree that flogging stuff that is a blatant rip-off of another company’s stuff is morally questionable and creatively bankrupt. Do your own work. Chapterhouse Studios get no sympathy from me.Yep, its truly lame. And so is the fact that you have to own IP of the various parts of a miniature separately to owning the whole thing. Wtf? I might stick to making single-piece figures from now on lol.
Xander:
Sent you an email, Bagg.
But yah, Grim, if you need a web site, I am your man.
Thommy H:
Zobo: I’m not sure the car parts comparrison is that valid, to be honest. There’s a difference between pieces to repair and maintain a utilitarian machine and elements of a piece of artwork. You wouldn’t try to sell extra chapters for a novel, would you? It is a bit of a grey area, but I think most of us have a gut feeling for what is acceptable and what isn’t.
Baggronor: I’m not at all convinced by their arguments about “parts of a figure not being copyrightable” or whatever. What I think we have with these halfwits is the usual smug attitude of people who want to take a pop at the GW legal team by alleging that their IP rules are unenforcable. They also claim they paid for a real lawyer to look at it too. Yeah, okay guys. GW may be on shaky grounds with some of their claims (tattoos? Really?) but I think blatantly ripping off a company and sponging off their creative endeavours and then thumbing your nose at their attempts to protect that is pretty despicable. And I think a court would agree with me. I guess we’ll see how it pans out if the multi-million dollar international corporation goes up against their “$1000 IP attorney”.
Grimstonefire:
If you read into the chapterhouse story they were already threatened with legal action, but GW did not pursue it.
zobo1942:
@Thommy H: I think someone describing their products in terms of someone else’s ideas is lousy, though I don’t think creating, selling or buying a 28mm scale ‘xxxxx’ that happens to fit a model made by someone else is a crime.
For example, if someone built 28mm scale ‘goblohob underdweller head and foot sprue’ that happened to perfectly fit a GW plague monk body, would that be a bad thing? I don’t think so - I wouldn’t even consider it sleazy. After all, it would fit on any 28mm scale miniature. Would it be wrong to do that? I wouldn’t think so, but it really is a matter of opinion. Are making miniatures which share scale and a ‘dark fantasy’ feel wrong to create because they may be sponging of off GW’s ideas? I don’t know. Maybe it’s a type of satire.
@Baggronor: After seeing your illustration of a night goblin in the WoH, I’m thinking a that’s pretty much the most awesome portrait of a ‘goblohob underdweller’ I’ve ever seen! 
Sjoerdo:
Chapterhouse is not my cup of tea, but It’s a good thing they are doing what they are doing if only to show the flaws in GW’s IP protectionisme.
Agreed what they are doing isn’t very creative, but at the same time GW is preventing a lot of people that are creative to making a succes out of their talents.
For Hashuts sake, they even threatened a lot of miniature companies we here like a whole lot, and they are only trying to make a decent buck with their own talent and creativity (and most of these companies make miniatures of a quality GW can only dream of )!
And lets not forget that GW is only where it is today by riding the bandwagon of the dungeons and dragons succes, talking about being creative 