[Archive] need advice

Method:

Hey fellas,

Going to an uncomped 3K event in a couple months with no grand armies rules. Special characters will be allowed.

But I’m torn on what I should do. It will be a 80 man event, but speaking to the TO, i am likely the lone CD player there.

But speaking to some folks, a couple players are bringing filth.

I have finished very high in the past 6 ish events, and of course want to do so again but the army I was planning on bringing, might not be strong enough to weather the min max armies in the later rounds.

I was planning to take one of each unit type in the Loa army list. Very tame, but a good representative of what the CD are all about (since they are rare in my region)

But now I feel myself changing the list to something harder, to keep up.

Please take a look at this list and tell me if I am going too far?

Lvl 4 of hashut with talisman of endurance, chalice and enchanted shield, blood of hashut.

Bsb with mask of furnace, shield.

Lvl 1 metal scroll

3 wolf rider heroes

28 blunderbusses with fc

20 hobgobs with bows, musio

25 hobgoblin w shield f2f

2 deathshriekers

1 magma cannon

6 fireborn with champ

Destroyer

Destroyer.

Too much to break out on a playerbase with no experience vs the Loa?

mistrmoon:

Nah, thats fair game in an event where you know others are bringing hard minmax lists from other books. i find at 3k people tend to just include a single extra support unit and the rest goes into magic items and beefing up units because they dont want to rethink how to play their 2500pt lists. that being said i’d include more magma cannons. when every unit on the board is a hoard they are golden. also at 3k EVERYONE has a unit with the flaming banner so figure out who that is if possible then get the kdai in there quickly. also everyone’s anti infantry warmachines are going to be pointed at your infernal guard unit so squeeze the ironcurse icon in there somewhere.

Grimbold Blackhammer:

Not a terrible list by any means. I’d swap the scroll and the chalice around though.

Baggronor:

Double Destroyers? :wink: Really? You’ll steamroller the weaker players and actually I suspect you will do worse vs the good players - the Destroyer is so easy to counter for smart players.

I also think it’s far too small - even at 2.4k, I bring 2 Lv1s, BSB, 2 Khans, 28 great weapon IG, 2 x 20 Hobgoblin archers, 6 Fireborn, MC, Hellcannon, Hellbound ID and Destroyer. You need more stuff imo.

Method:

Double Destroyers? ;) Really? You'll steamroller the weaker players and actually I suspect you will do worse vs the good players - the Destroyer is so easy to counter for smart players.

I also think it's far too small - even at 2.4k, I bring 2 Lv1s, BSB, 2 Khans, 28 great weapon IG, 2 x 20 Hobgoblin archers, 6 Fireborn, MC, Hellcannon, Hellbound ID and Destroyer. You need more stuff imo.

Baggronor
I hear you. I have more units (just not more chaos dwarfs themselves...(sold alot to by the new artillery)

I think you overestimate the ability of even good players to deal with dual destroyers so easily. certainly one can be caught (pendent lord, surrounded by chaff etc) but the vast M stat of 9, means, entire zones will be unavailable to the opponents main units. this is all provided that you can remove the opposing chaff, and play cat and mouse effective enough. consider, CD players arent going to be a dipsticks in their movement phase either.

That said, sometimes the artillery forces them into a mistake before my mv 9 destroyer get blocked in itself.

I could always field 5 wolf rider khans to counter chaff the enemy..

i guess the real issue is, this particular GT isn't win/loss at all.
it doesnt matter how much of you're stuff dies, but rather players are assigned their total victory points at the end of each game, and thus need to be able to get points in bunches. (you do get half points for units though)

how does the hellbound ID preform. i use the normal one typically,
basically are the extra points worth it? does it make it unkillable?
(my normal one has only died once to a massive searing doom)
and certainly, i suspect other expert players have a far easiler time mitigating that threat..BUT it is a very effective road block.

OR should i ditch the second destroyer and go for a killy BC and a unit for him to lead?

i havent used the Hell Cannon for my CD yet, i am still slightly against it because it was originally in the WOC book  ;P

and in the games, i have been using the dreadquake (my fav) but sadly it's no comparison.

Baggronor:

I think you overestimate the ability of even good players to deal with dual destroyers so easily. certainly one can be caught (pendent lord, surrounded by chaff etc) but the vast M stat of 9, means, entire zones will be unavailable to the opponents main units. this is all provided that you can remove the opposing chaff, and play cat and mouse effective enough. consider, you arent going to be a dipstick in you're movement phase either.
Don't get me wrong, they are definitely very good. Its just that a lot of the tough builds can handle them. Then again, I suppose over 6 games, they should score more VPs than anything else for 750pts and if that is all that matters under the tournament rules then go for it.
how does the hellbound ID preform. i use the normal one typically, basically are the extra points worth it? does it make it unkillable?
(my normal one has only died once to a massive searing doom)
If you're going to take one, imo you need it to be 6s to wound for anything it meets - being indestructible is it's main selling point after all. T8 means Ironguts etc are still on 6s to wound, whereas at T7 it's only 5s. Plus, the shooting being magical is handy vs VCs and WEs. The Cannonades are very nice in this Monstrous Cav-heavy environment I find. Overall, it is overpriced but then so is most of the LoA list. My flatmate kills it with his WoC though, stupid Throgg. Again, if the tourney is all about killing things, its prob not a good choice, too defensive.

I would drop the Lv4, he doesn't do enough for his points in my experience. Just load out on Magma Cannons and Deathshriekers and run people over with double Destroyers.

Double Taur'uks is something I'd like to try sometime. Maybe you could fit it in? Double Destroyers and double Taur'uks would kick some serious bum.

Method:

I think you overestimate the ability of even good players to deal with dual destroyers so easily. certainly one can be caught (pendent lord, surrounded by chaff etc) but the vast M stat of 9, means, entire zones will be unavailable to the opponents main units. this is all provided that you can remove the opposing chaff, and play cat and mouse effective enough. consider, you arent going to be a dipstick in you're movement phase either.
Don't get me wrong, they are definitely very good. Its just that a lot of the tough builds can handle them. Then again, I suppose over 6 games, they should score more VPs than anything else for 750pts and if that is all that matters under the tournament rules then go for it.
how does the hellbound ID preform. i use the normal one typically, basically are the extra points worth it? does it make it unkillable?
(my normal one has only died once to a massive searing doom)
If you're going to take one, imo you need it to be 6s to wound for anything it meets - being indestructible is it's main selling point after all. T8 means Ironguts etc are still on 6s to wound, whereas at T7 it's only 5s. Plus, the shooting being magical is handy vs VCs and WEs. The Cannonades are very nice in this Monstrous Cav-heavy environment I find. Overall, it is overpriced but then so is most of the LoA list. My flatmate kills it with his WoC though, stupid Throgg. Again, if the tourney is all about killing things, its prob not a good choice, too defensive.

I would drop the Lv4, he doesn't do enough for his points in my experience. Just load out on Magma Cannons and Deathshriekers and run people over with double Destroyers.

Double Taur'uks is something I'd like to try sometime. Maybe you could fit it in? Double Destroyers and double Taur'uks would kick some serious bum.


Baggronor
well, the Iron Daemon hell bound still provides a valuable role. For example, the enemy cannot react to the dual destroyers if his main block is tied up in combat with a nigh unkillable paperweight. then after the damage is done.. the destroyers dual charge.

I like the lvl 4, simply because Ash storm really gets in all the bad guys heads. usually they over commit to stopping it. Though the death lore is probably the better choice (and with the exception of shadow and maybe life.. it is the best lore in the game probably)

I like the Taur'uks. one with a 0+ armor, and crown of command, and the other with the sword of antiheroes.. in a unit of 4 BC is EVIL vs low level death stars that have alot of characters (savage orcs, bestigors, empire halbrediers) vs the big death stars (black knight buss, gut star etc) use the ID to pin, and deal with it in time.

if you want an idea of our scene, there is a youtube guy (oncebitten) who plays in our events, he just went to the primer event for this GT, seen here.

our scene is quite tame, most of the time, i'd say about 10-12 players in the 80 man event will bring filth.. not too bad at all.

http://www.youtube.com/user/OnceBitten360

You can see my game against him in the Jan coverage of scarab con vs my Brets in the last GT he played in last month.

Yea, i placed 2nd in that small two day event, and in fact the last 4 GTs i played in i placed 2nd. Now nicknamed "the Bridesmaid" by the rest of the club...ugh.

to be honest, i have never fielded an army that was considered really strong (usually one of each artillery be it empire or CD) and i am really, really trying to make an army that is tough, WITHOUT fielding a second destroyer.
I am one of those guys whose theory is, if you field a variety of unit choices in any given book, you can usually find a solution to almost anything even if it isnt the "easy" button.

I am determined in doing the same with the CDs i guess...

Baggronor:

well, the Iron Daemon hell bound still provides a valuable role. For example, the enemy cannot react to the dual destroyers if his main block is tied up in combat with a nigh unkillable paperweight. then after the damage is done.. the destroyers dual charge.
I think my regular opponents have kinda tailored their armies slightly these days - for example they all have a random mounted guy with the Dragonhelm now, even the Empire and Chaos players who don't need it to get a 1+ save. Its the same with the train, there is always some douchy cavalry guy ready to ride into it asap :) My flatmate's OnG have 3 mounted lone Gobbo Big Bosses and a Gobbo Warboss! It's rare that I get to shove the train into a main block.
I am one of those guys whose theory is, if you field a variety of unit choices in any given book, you can usually find a solution to almost anything even if it isnt the "easy" button.
Yep, agree. Plus its more fun to include lots of different stuff. Tricky with LoA though, so many bad choices...

Method:

Made some changes to the list…

The plan is to use the fireborn to go after mid range infantry threats, use the BC to clear out chaff, and protect the warmachines and small fighty units (units of 5 knights) The Iron Daemon to be a mobile roadblock to stop deathstars, and shoot monsters, the BB, and hobgobs to provide ranks when needed, and the destroyers to smash most everything else.

Thoughts? the army is much bigger regarding troops as well…

Characters

Lvl 4 with Talisman of Protection, enchanted shield, Chalice

BSB Dragon helm

Core

28 Blunderbusses with S/M

25 HG with shields with S/M

20 HB with bow with Musi

Special

1 magma cannon

1 death shrieker

6 fireborn

3 BC with GW, S/M with gleaming pendant

Iron Daemon HB

Rare

Destroyer

Destroyer