Tarrakk Blackhand:
Hi guys!
A friend of mine posted this on one of the Romanian Millitary web sites I visit. It’s a battle between Sun Tzu and Vlad Tepes. Just thought you’d be interested in seeing the weapons and how they react in combat.
Check out the Zuai and the Kilij!
tkohub.com
gIL^:
That show is total trash.
Blue in VT:
Agreed…complete trash…just a stupid premise.
Cheers,
Blue
gIL^:
Agreed...complete trash...just a stupid premise.One other thing i notice though, It's rather anti europeon, Always the Indian or the asian wins.
Cheers,
Blue
Blue in VT
Blue in VT:
My problem with this show…and most like it…is that it denies the importance of unit tactics…instead focusing on equipment…which is just stupid.
Plus the whole…WOOOO look how that samurai sword chopped through that dead pig…ooohhh…ahhhh…who gives a rats a$$!!!
Blue
Da Crusha:
but the samurai sword performed more poorly than the viking sword in the dead pig test.
I personally love the show but I dont think of it as an end to all debate. the show should really be called “the deadliest weapon (among the ones we pick)”.
my favorites are the melee combat episodes. the modern warfare ones I don’t like at all.
there are a few threads already about this topic.
Zuh-Khinie:
That show is so insanely great, showing only the best and most balanced pitched battles… or maybe not…
I seem to remember clearly the duel between a ninja (or something similar asian wearing an ugly frock and wielding the next type of weapon everybody agrees looks like a katana) and… a highlander… guess who won?
What I always find interesting is that people just plainly adore samurai, as opposed to the western european knight, or even the chinese soldier.
I’ve read Bushido… I can’t say I completely understand it, but I get the base principles.
Western knightly phylosophy leans closely to Bushido, it only involves less death (and suicide).
Also what people seem to forget (as soon as they start screaming SAMURAI!!! and get starfilled eyes as soon as one walks on screen looking a lot like Tom Cruise), is that the western knight was a professionally trained killing machine, wielding a sword weighing not 8 pounds, but closer to 3 pounds. His armor didn’t weigh 60 pounds, but something closer to 30 pounds, and it was specially designed to give maximal protection AND freedom of movement.
So yes, the western knight had more weight, his sword wasn’t processed a 100 times in a smoldering fire etc, but don’t forget he was bigger and stronger than his asian counterpart, and that the steel from his sword didn’t have to get processed that much, because european steel was far superior to japanese steel (which is one of the main reasons the portugese were able to colonise (parts of) Japan that fast).
I’m sorry for my badgering on, but I get really annoyed by this kind of shows that put things in a completely wrong perspective in time and essence.
Da Crusha:
I seem to remember clearly the duel between a ninja (or something similar asian wearing an ugly frock and wielding the next type of weapon everybody agrees looks like a katana) and... a highlander... guess who won?uhh, I dont have to guess who won, I already know, the ninja loses to the spartan. I think you're under the impression that the ninja won.
Zuh-Khinie
Grimstonefire:
The claymore was the most brutal sword we’ve seen so far isn’t it? Cut through 3 pigs I think.
Baggronor:
Jesus, if I have to do this one more time…
I’m sorry for my badgering on, but I get really annoyed by this kind of shows that put things in a completely wrong perspective in time and essence.Yet here you are doing exactly the same thing.
but don’t forget he was bigger and stronger than his asian counterpartNot really. People in bygone times were all smaller than today in general; just try on some Victorian clothing if you don’t believe me, its tiny. Its not just us far easterners. And no, Vikings weren’t all 7 feet tall wearing chaos armour
is that the western knight was a professionally trained killing machineAnd this is different to a Samurai, how? They’re the same thing dude, professional elite soldiers, its just that one is European and one is Japanese.
I seem to remember clearly the duel between a ninja (or something similar asian wearing an ugly frock and wielding the next type of weapon everybody agrees looks like a katana) and… a highlander… guess who won?Well, I’m sorry our clothes look like ugly frocks to you, but at least we didn’t wear tights and wigs. Very manly, I’m sure
And I assume their version of a Highlander was some raving looney in a kilt, bearing as much resemblance to a real Scot as Mel Gibson? hat the steel from his sword didn’t have to get processed that much, because european steel was far superior to japanese steel (which is one of the main reasons the portugese were able to colonise (parts of) Japan that fast).Where to start really. European swords just aren’t as complex in their construction, thats all there is to it; this is a fact that any knowledgeable historian will agree with. Doesn’t mean that the European sword wasn’t just as well designed, its a completely different tool made for a different fighting style to kill different enemies. And let us also not forget that the katana was, just like the western sword, a sidearm; something you fall back on when your main weapon has been rendered useless on the battlefield, not the primary weapon. Notions of it cutting through heavier armour types are fanciful. The cult of the sword grew up in the Edo period, a period of peace when the Samurai was essentially a policeman; it is from here that the ‘soul of the Samurai’ idea comes from, not times of actual war. If you quoted Edo era thinking to a Sengoku era (civil war period) Samurai, he would think you quite mad.
What I always find interesting is that people just plainly adore samurai, as opposed to the western european knight, or even the chinese soldier.In China, they adore Chinese soldiers. The difference is that Chinese history hasn’t been mercilessly commercialised abroad like Japanese history has, and Japan is essentially now seen as pacifist and friendly, not like China’s image. People in Europe are just used to Knights, but the whole occidental ‘other’ identity that the Samurai represents has a big appeal for western audiences, and that’s the root of its popularity; not the real Samurai, these people aren’t interested in that, they want the exotic idea that ‘Samurai’ means to them. The opposite is true in Japan, where the Samurai are seen as old and boring and knights in shining armour are the way to go.
Da Crusha:
The claymore was the most brutal sword we've seen so far isn't it? Cut through 3 pigs I think.Im not sure, but it was the heaviest I believe. vlad's sword was very interesting it had just the right amount of weight distribution for maximum effectiveness.
Grimstonefire
Baggronor:
uhh, I dont have to guess who won, I already know, the ninja loses to the spartan. I think you're under the impression that the ninja won.Just like in that other totally historically accurate film, 300. Frank Miller, what were you thinking.
Zuh-Khinie:
Thank you for clearing all that up for me… I really didn’t know all that :~
I could go to a lengthy discussion with you now about the how and why of the Portugese presence in Japan, but let’s just leave it…
I do agree however that the tactical roles of their weapons is different, and comes from a different mindset.
However, just as you said, samurai were a form of policeforce during Edo, the same can be said about the western european knights. They were ‘the law’, only to answer to their liege or the king.
Da Crusha:
zuh, I saw that post you erased
Zuh-Khinie:
Claymores rule!!!
Baggronor:
zuh, I saw that post you erasedI'm guessing I don't want to know.
Da Crusha:
against me, not you. I swear it.zuh, I saw that post you erasedI'm guessing I don't want to know.
Baggronor
Zuh-Khinie:
Actually you can, it was related to what Da Crusha and Grimstonefire wrote before your post… we were replying at the same time…
it was about:
the fact that claymores rule, and that the ninja won in the simulation of that show, and that that kind of thing just isn’t a fair fight.
Is that what I wrote Crusha? Have I remembered correctly?
I’m not really your vindictive type of guy, thank you for thinking of me that way…
I’m even able to admit you make a good point, as I said in one of my posts above.
Even though I dislike the idolisation of the asian warrior at the expense of the european warrior by european kids, I’m still intelligent enough to know that they also have their merrits, and I’m even smart enough to know which, and acknowledge them.
Which is exactly why I read Bushido by Inazo Nitobe, and studied parts of the european occupation of Asia… and the culture of China, which influenced the largest part of ‘popular Asia’ in the west (just like the Greek influenced the Romans).
Da Crusha:
yeah, he said ninja won the match. I was looking for the episode and was getting ready to quote it when the post disappeared.
Baggronor:
I'm not really your vindictive type of guy, thank you for thinking of me that way...Apologies, my bad. Its not just the old internet misunderstanding thing either, I do tend to assume the worst due to past experience.
Even though I dislike the idolisation of the asian warrior at the expense of the european warrior by european kidsDon't worry, the kids behave the same in Asia. Its harmless really.