Sorcerer, Lv 4, w/ Chalice of Darkness & Lore of Shadow
Heroes339, 16.96%
Sorcerer, Lv 2, w/ Fozzrik’s Folding Fortress
Chaos Dwarf Hero BSB, w/ Banner of Slavery
Core508, 25.41%
20 Chaos Dwarf Warriors w/ Blunderbusses, Banner of Eternal Flame
19 Chaos Dwarf Warriors w/ Blunderbusses, Banner of Eternal Flame
Special434, 21.71%
27 Black Orcs w/ Full Command & Razor Standard
Rare220, 11.01%
2x Earth Shaker w/ 3 Crew
Total:1999
Part of the idea here is to deploy one or both Earthshakers on top of the tower that’s placed at the start of deployment because of Fozzrik’s Folding Fortress, hopefully maintaining LOS to the enemy for the duration of the game. With the Earthshakers firing and hopefully softening up the advance, it’s also intended to slow the enemy down and keep them within the firing solution of the Blunderbusses.
Obviously the Blunderbusses all have flaming attacks, both with shooting and in close combat as per the current rules.
The big block of Black Orcs are supported by the BSB (letting them re-roll failed Panic, Stupidity, etc.) and possibly from spells from the Sorcerers. They’ll also benefit from the General’s Ld10, as usual for us Chaos Dwarfs. They carry the Razor Standard which gives them armour piercing. So the S4 Black Orcs’ opponents get -1 to their armour save already, with the standard that’s now -2.
I put the Chalice of Darkness in there to give some added manipulation to the opponents power dice, and the reason for putting Lore of Shadow on the Lv 4 Sorcerer is to give the best chances of getting necessary spells such as Okkam’s Mindrazor or Penumbral Pendulum (the latter used in conjunction w/ Mistifying Miasma). Remember that in 8th Ed. Once you’ve rolled to determine what random spell your sorcerer knows, if you already know that spell you can pick one from the list instead, or you can just pick the signature spell, Mistifying Miasma. 4 rolls for the spells gives the best chance of getting what I want. Obviously Okkam’s Mindrazor is there to beef up the Black Orcs, who would be at Str 10 if within the 12" range of the General (and their opponents would be at a -8 armour save due to the BO banner).
With the Lore of Death on the Sorcerer Hero I figured it wasn’t as important to get exactly a certain spell on the table as I’ll always be happy with the signature spell, which pits the caster’s unmodified Ld (Ld 9) against a specific enemy model. Figured this spell was just about equally good on a CD Sorcerer Hero with Ld 9 as it was on a higher Lv Sorcerer Lord with Ld 10. Casting certain Lore of Death spells may also help boost the power dice pool as well, which doesn’t hurt.
Chances are it’ll be this Lv 2 Lore of Death Sorcerer that will attempt to cast first in order to try and boost the power dice pool, however the Lore of Shadow Sorcerer also has the trick that he can saw places with another character once he’s successfully cast, so there’s some opportunities for some tricksy swapping of characters, and bringing models like the General or the BSB into range of other units, perhaps unexpectedly (remains to be seen how useful I can make that idea).
Thoughts and comments (or pointing out totally dumb mistakes) are welcome…
hmm, well first off there is no point of putting the banner of slavery on the BSB because the BSB already allows all units within 12" to reroll failed LD tests. next I don’t believe you can field multiples of the same magic items, so no 2 banner of eternal flames. folding fortress costs 100 points so a hero cannot carry it. I don’t think you should use the chalice to manipulate your opponents power dice because you have to remember that you will always have less dispel dice than he will have powerdice so your more likely to handicap yourself even worse. instead you should use it when you are casting that way you can lower his already lower amount of dispel dice. instead of using okkams mindrazor to pump up the black orcs who are already powerful, I would instead use it on sneaky gits. the amount of points you spend on black orcs can buy you more than 70 sneaky gits. in horde formation a sneaky git unit can do 29 S10 attacks with mindrazor and general nearby against an opponent only 5 wide. personally I would rely less on blunderbuss and add some more combat units because charge range is extra far in this edition. hope this helps.
As has been pointed out, Heroes can only take 50pts of magic items and Lords up to 100pts, as well as only being able to take only one of each magic item.
First thing to do is switch a banner of the eternal flame with another banner (probably of slavery, since the BSB doesn’t need it You can only use one re-roll). The BSB can have a different magic banner then as well, which is useful. Alternatively, give a unit of BBs the banner of slavery and the BSB the banner of eternal flame (to switch between units). Another thing to mention is that only one unit of Chaos Dwarf Warriors and one unit of Bull Centaurs may have a magic standard (as well as Big’Uns and BlOrcs), so they couldn’t both have a banner anyhow.
Second is to switch the Sorcerers’ equipment, which means dropping some points in the Lord section. dropping the Armour of Gazrakh and the Sorcerer Lord to lvl3 gives you enough points to have the fortress and leaves you with 2 points to spend. Something else to note is that the Shield wasn’t providing any bonus since you have the 1+ save from the armour, which cannot be improved beyond 1+ (under 8th Edition). Without looking at the common items right now, I can’t suggest anything else, just that’s the quickest way of switching them up.
You can now take a unit of 10 hobbos since you have a spare 20 points from the Banner of Eternal Flame, which alos helps to slightly bulk out the army as it looks quite small (3 rank & file formations, with a monster, 2 war machines and three characters), but playtesting will define how well they work.
Well there’s the problem with modifying my old list late at night before bed… bad things happen
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions on the choices. I also made a typo… I meant to say the Chalice was intended to manipulate the opponent’s dispel dice, not his power dice
OK, here’s another go around, and there’s been enough points changes to allow some Hobgobins in.
you might want to buy musicians for your blunderbuss that way they can quick reform and fire, rather than just wheel or walk sideways or walk backwards. in 8th edition they got rid of turn maneuver where troops all stand in one place and face either 90 or 180 degrees. now instead blunderbuss need a musician to be able to quick reform and be able maneuver efficiently. without a musician you either reform or fire. with musician you can reform still wheel and fire, for only 10 points each.
Miscalculated the BO cost. I actually should have 28 for the points cost, instead of 25, with another 6 points left over that can go into Hobgoblins… list updated
Regarding the Lord, he only has a 4+ armour save; I wouldn’t pay 25pts to re-roll something that will likely be modified quite often and even negated completely by many opponents you will need the Lord to take on. Keep Armour of Gaz and drop Dawnstone?
I personally would drop the BB completely for warrior blocks.
Da Crusha
As opposed to relying solely on the 34 Hobgoblins, 28 Black Orcs and 26 Sneaky Gits for close combat? I personally like the Blunderbuss and want them in any of my CD armies... obviously that's personal preference all the way. Winning vs having fun and enjoying the game are important distinctions - obviously... but do you think taking the two units of BBs is to the list's detriment? I definitely don't want to make a list that's going to lose ;) I know best laid plans often don't work out, but my intention was to have at least one ES on top of the folding fortress, hopefully slowing down advancing enemy units while I get in shots with the BBs and spells with the Sorcs.
You forgot that Hobgoblins doesn’t count for 25% core. So you’lll have to take additional unit of CD warriors or Blunderbusses. Also i’d suggest to take a couple of Hobgoblin Boltthrowers to deal with cavalery and heavy armored troops.
You forgot that Hobgoblins doesn't count for 25% core. ;) So you'lll have to take additional unit of CD warriors or Blunderbusses. Also i'd suggest to take a couple of Hobgoblin Boltthrowers to deal with cavalery and heavy armored troops.
Lord Archaon
Ya, nuts, you're right... that was dumb. Screwed up my spread sheet cutting and pasting cells around... they weren't supposed to ;)
Well, dropping the Sneaky Gits and the Hobgoblins from Core frees up enough points to take 20 CD Warriors with full command... for a total of 1993 points. That makes core ~32% and still none of the others go over their % allotment.
Hmm, losing the gits is sad. Maybe I should consider taking a page from Hashut Blessing's book and take fewer BBs in each unit, they'll be S4 most of the time, but two units of BBs firing with S4 seems better than only one unit with S5. ... then that would free up enough for 21 Sneaky Gits or 54 vanilla Hobgoblins.
Thing is, charge moves are much longer than in 7th, so BBs won’t get as many shots (if unlucky, they’ll only get a stand and shoot).
I would peg 20 as the absolute minimum for CD unit sizes in 8th. BBs might be able to get away with smaller, but I’m liking 24 for my Warriors, 6 wide. The larger units sizes really are needed to absorb the greater incoming damage.
I used to heavily rely on BB and Earthshaker combo but it never pays for itself IMO. blunderbuss in general never pay off for me, but maybe you will have better luck with them. a friend of mine always brings 3 units of them and devastates units but I never have such luck. most times after finding out how they work my opponents decide to charge their heavy cav or their monstrous infantry at them to reduce their effectiveness. cd warriors with GW on the other hand have been awesome for me in 8th edition and I have found them to be invaluable.
You can only use one re-roll). The BSB can have a different magic banner then as well, which is useful. Alternatively, give a unit of BBs the banner of slavery and the BSB the banner of eternal flame (to switch between units). Another thing to mention is that only one unit of Chaos Dwarf Warriors and one unit of Bull Centaurs may have a magic standard (as well as Big’Uns and BlOrcs), so they couldn’t both have a banner anyhow.